Why would the Passlock reset procedure fail? Here's your link to instructions I followed - http://my.cardone.com/techdocs/pt%2077-0011.pdf

The symptoms of no fuel, no spark, could be a Passlock issue, and as you point out the BCM.

As a note what's lingering in the background is the drain on the battery. Earlier you suggested in may be the diodes in the alternator but that may not be the cause of the drain, i.e. fuel pump. If and when this car runs again I'll test the alternator with my new and improved battery charger!

 

So you still have the drain issue.... forgot about that.

Does the security light ever go off?
If so, when?

I think you're at a point where the communications error and the current drain need to be addressed before moving on. The communications error may be preventing the passlock reset procedure from executing properly, since it is possible that the BCM and ECM are not communicating which is a requirement for passlock and passlock reset.

I I do not know how the BCM communicates with the fuel pump. It is likely a simple grounding of a BCM pin which closes an electrical circuit which in turn triggers the fuel pump relay to close. Meaning it is not communicating through a communications line. So I don't believe the communications error is directly related to the fuel pump not working.

It seems more likely to me that this is a communications issue between the BCM and ECM given the nature of the communications error and the issues with passlock. This could also be an issue with the BCM itself. needs to be diagnosed with the correct equipment to determine the true issue or issues.

Failure to get current to the fuel pump may be BCM related or it is also possible that the fuel pump is dead. Again cannot tell without proper diagnostic equipment.
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Failure to recognize the common and typical failure modes of BCMs in Saturns is what trips people up. Either find an independent with experience working on S cars and L cars or an experienced tech at a GM dealership.

Also, be aware that if you pay for a module replacement that does not fix the problem, a refund is in order and so is the return of your original part. Be sure to tell them up front in writing somewhere on the estimate that the original modules replaced are to be returned to you. It is the law.

Protects you against clueless people playing swap a module and charging you for all of them.

Some GM dealerships have been claiming they cannot flash new BCMs for older Saturns. They CAN do so by obtaining the correct flash program from GM if they don't have it in house. If a dealership tells you they can't do it, you can either call them on it or find somewhere else willing to do it. Sometimes they say they can't do it because they simply don't want to deal with it.

 

You MIGHT get lucky with checking the fuel pump by just tapping on the bottom of the gas tank with a rubber mallet. Once you do that, try starting it. If that doesn't work, have someone try cranking it while you tap on the fuel tank. If that doesn't work, then I don't have anything to add to what all derf has told you.

 

Thanks guys.....I had the Security light on for 25 min max - it didn't go off. With the charger on I can try longer if you want.

Tested voltage to fuel pump using this video of Saturn S series - https://www. youtube.com/watch?v=ODs5GMRI2Q0 . Is this valid for my '02 SC? If so, there was no voltage on the grey wire. Hayseed, did tap the tank, I was really hoping that was the fix!

The local Chevy dealer just quoted $650 to diagnose and replace the BCM (plus towing and tax). If the ECM was the problem they could not make the repair because ECM's are aftermarket. I'm waiting for a return call from Buick, suspect they'll say the same on the ECM.

If this was your car in your garage and you had a spare ECM, BCM, and CPS on the bench which would you swap first to solve the problem? Does a new BCM need to be programmed?

 

They can't program ecms because they're aftermarket? Wtf? What they are saying is they REFUSE to program anything not sourced through GM. They likely don't want to warranty someone else's hardware. Still, if it came down to it you could prob negotiate a 90 day or as is in writing.
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You need to have been checking for V at the pump during priming. Not saying you weren't, just a reminder.
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Have you checked for V at the fuel pump relay socket? The relay may be ok but the electrical connections may not
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For that matter, have you checked the v at fuel pump fuse relative to chassis ground. Just want to make sure we cover all obvious places where power might be lost. However, that is complicated by the BCM being responsible for completing the circuit and kicking the relay.

The only other thing I can think of is to run V /I directly to the fuel pump to see if it turns on. If it does work but you're not hearing the relay click when everything is hooked up normally, either the connections to the relay are bad or the BCM is not closing the circuit based on what is happening with the ignition switch. Have you had any ignition switch issues in the past? Probably should have asked that 33 posts ago we all make mistakes.

Ignition switch issues could potentially account for passlock BS. Obviously the dealer thinks it's the BCM without even touching it, also known as I will charge you $650 and we will both find out if the BCM was the problem.

Oh I never answered your question about BCM programming. An absolutely brand new BCM should not be put in a vehicle until immediately before programming. If you put it in the vehicle they will not program it because it did not come from them. It is programmed to match all of the options your vehicle has. No more no less. If your parts car is sufficiently similar with respect to the options, you may be able to get away with a simple swap on your own and no change in programming. Or live with some things that just don't work.

 

I really don't know that much about Saturns but I do know this. I had a 1993 Mitsubishi Diamante Station Wagon years ago that the BCM went out in. I researched and researched and everything I found said I'd have to get an identical # BCM in order for it to work. I couldn't find one with that # anywhere. I went to a Pull-A-Part yard in Nashville and they had a 4 door Diamante Sedan. It was also a 1993. I pulled the BCM and it was NOT the same # as my wagon, but I figured WTF? If it doesn't work, I'm no worse off. I paid $15 for it and went home and put it in. When I stuck the key in, it fired right up and ran like a top. I drove that sum beech for another 2 years and then sold it to a buddy who gave it to his dumbass step daughter. She wrecked it about 3 months after George bought it. She hit a telephone pole with it dead center in the front. Bye bye Diamante, but she was okay. The point I'm trying to make is what do you have to lose right now by trying the spare BCM you have? The car doesn't run anyway.

 

OK....just drove over to the Buick dealer. They quoted $170 for diag, $688 for the BCM plus 2 hours of labor at $170 per. If they do the work the $170 diag is reduced but still around $1K.

Another option is to have the car towed, it's $55, have Buick diagnose for $170, tow it back for $55 and do the work myself - that's around $300 to diagnose.

I'm just getting back and read your posts. I did not check FP V during priming which I will do in a little while - forgot that's it's a transient signal.

I did mention a few posts back that yes a few years ago (3-4) I had a problem with the ignition switch, had a locksmith work on the tumblers and cut new keys which has been fine. The keys he cut work the ignition, doors, and trunk. He did not do anything to the door and trunk locks.

I'll check as many things you suggested that I'm able to do and get back a little later today.

As always, thank you.

 

The passlock sensor is in the actual ignition switch, not a tumbler. If the key does not seat close enough 2 the sensor when inserted, it will not detect the presence of the key. Has your security light always been on solid like it is now or is this a new predicament? The whole communications issue thing is telling us that critical parts of the system are not properly communicating with other critical parts of the system. Question is which ones and how to diagnose.

I think I'm with rube on this one. Swap in the other BCM. Even if the car does not run, if passlock behaves differently and or the fuel pump behaves differently, you will have made progress in diagnosing the issue. $170 an hour? I call BS. Audi dealerships do not charge that much.

 

Couldn't take those measurements until today.....needed 2 people to test FP v when ignit turned on. No voltage on the grey connector wire in the trunk or at the FP fuse in the IPFB. Did the test twice, actually both times both locations there was an immediate 0.01v reading. Did check V to ground on all other fuses under hood and inside - all good minus the 3 transaxles which seems right.

Thinking back. the security light issue is definitely new. Never recall seeing it, it would've been a big deal if it had stayed on. I don't know how to test the V at the FP relay socket. You suggest running V/I directly to the FP, I don't know how to do that. I never had a fuel pump or filter issue i.e. hesitation. I suspect the fuel pump itself is ok.

Guys to clarify, I'm stuck in a 1 car garage, can't open the passenger door, barely the drivers. The Rules of our Community prohibit working on your car in the driveway. So, I do not have a parts car. I do not have any spare parts, if so I would have swapped a long time ago. My question was to you guy's - "If this was your car in your garage and you had a spare ECM, BCM, and CPS on the bench which would you swap first to solve the problems?

Decided, this car is not going to a GM dealer for diag or anything else. It looks to me like a Passlock issue. If the ignition switch communication to the BCM is the problem why do all other ignition functions work fine?

If the ign switch is not the problem I'd like your blessing to a buy a BCM as a first step. (I can then tell my wife that Derf and Rube thinks it makes sense!) I've seen prices in the $250-350 range. I have a mobile company specializing in electronics that can program the BCM on site. I need to call him back to check pricing. If it's not the BCM I now own a spare, that's fine. The car has 108K miles and we'll own it for many more years.

My concern with this DIY approach is the quality of the BCM and the skill of the programmer.

Thoughts?

 

Don't **** your money away on an expensive BCM, man. Just get one from a junkyard to try. I'd suggest a yard where you can pull it yourself. That way, you can take a list of all the things that your car has and find one with the same stuff. Even if it has a couple of extra features, I THINK it will work well enough for you to check your car.