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Saturn S Series Sedan SL, SL1, and SL2

Alarm issues on 02 SL

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  #1  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:12 AM
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Default Alarm issues on 02 SL

Iíve had this car for about 3 weeks, and this last week it keeps dying and the alarm (which seems to have a kill switch) wonít disengage. The battery also seems to drain. Iíve tried replacing the battery in he remote, Iíve attempted to reset it using the button, and at this point Iím just fed up. When I can get it to run, itís beautiful. With this issue, I want to smash it with a hammer. My 3yo daughter and I have a few medical things going on, and hubs works 2 jobs. We need to have both cars running.

My basic question is- how do I rip this alarm out? Iíve no idea if itís factory or not. Failing that, how to I make it so I can still use the car? Itís had to be left several towns away from our home two nights in a row.

If more info is needed Iíll happily provide it if I can.
 
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2018, 05:11 AM
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No factory kill switches on these cars.

There should be a "Security" LED or idiot light on the dash.
What state is it in with the car when locked with the factory fob? Solid? Blinking?
When you try to start it ( with a properly charged battery), does the security light behavior change? Solid, blinking? Does the behavior change and then stay in that new state?

Your car has a factory built-in theft deterrent system with multiple levels of "someone is trying to steal me" responses.
On top of that it sounds like a previous owner may have installed an alarm system on top o that or possibly a system to bypass the factory one, as they are known to be prone to failure.

Please let us know about the security light status when the car is resting and when you're trying to start it.
Also, please post a picture of the aforementioned kill switch with enough perspective so we can figure out where it is physically located.

For the current drain, I'd start by taking it to Autozone or similar and have them do a load test on the charging system. It's FREE.
Don't buy anything to fix it based on a sales pitch. Just post your results here and we'll help you sort it out.

Is Service Engine Soon light on on the dash?
If so, have Autozone or similar read codes (again, Free) and post them here as Pxxxx, not as the text description, please.

We'll get it sorted out
 
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  #3  
Old 02-20-2018, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by derf View Post
No factory kill switches on these cars.

There should be a "Security" LED or idiot light on the dash.
What state is it in with the car when locked with the factory fob? Solid? Blinking?
When you try to start it ( with a properly charged battery), does the security light behavior change? Solid, blinking? Does the behavior change and then stay in that new state?

Your car has a factory built-in theft deterrent system with multiple levels of "someone is trying to steal me" responses.
On top of that it sounds like a previous owner may have installed an alarm system on top o that or possibly a system to bypass the factory one, as they are known to be prone to failure.

Please let us know about the security light status when the car is resting and when you're trying to start it.
Also, please post a picture of the aforementioned kill switch with enough perspective so we can figure out where it is physically located.

For the current drain, I'd start by taking it to Autozone or similar and have them do a load test on the charging system. It's FREE.
Don't buy anything to fix it based on a sales pitch. Just post your results here and we'll help you sort it out.

Is Service Engine Soon light on on the dash?
If so, have Autozone or similar read codes (again, Free) and post them here as Pxxxx, not as the text description, please.

We'll get it sorted out
Iím not sure the alarm is factory or standard, or some combination thereof. There is a security light on the dash but itís off more than itís on, and thereís a blinky led to the left side of the dash, away from the dials. I will try to post photos later as the car is a 20 min ride away.

I also donít think itís factory because the fob is not like the ones Iíve seen when googling this issue. The Security light does not go on when I lock or unlock the car with the fob or the key. It only goes on when I try to start the car, especially if it refuses to start.

The LED blinks crazily and I hear clicking when I try to arm or disarm it. The pattern seems to be a slow blink means armed and a fast one means ready to start, but not always.

I havent taken off the kick panel yet (on the list for tonight) so Iím not sure where it is, but my research suggests that itís under the steering wheel. Or thatís where theyíre usually placed. I know where the reset switch is, but there are two cut wires next to it, so Iím not sure it functions.

Ive heard of Autozone doing the service engine light checks (mine has never been on through any of this) but I didnít know they could check the charging system. Fortunately I lack the fund to buy much to fix it, so they canít sucker me into that. Thatís part. Of why I want to fix or remove it myself.

Thank you for the thorough response. Iíll get photos as soon as I can.

 
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Old 02-20-2018, 11:58 AM
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Solid Security light indicates stock security system triggered or THINKS it has been triggered.
When I hear cut wires under dash I think aftermarket security, stock bypass, and maybe both, The presence of this rogue fob suggests another system has been installed, probably to "bypass" the factory system which is known to be horribly problematic, leading to situations just like this.

How are you trying to arm disarm the system, and which system, the apparent add on? And it has a reset button?

There are multiple modes of stock security system lockout, and a solid security light will prevent the vehicle from running more than a few seconds as it disables the fuel injectors. The car may run two or three seconds, then stall.

Awaiting pictures. If it is aftermarket, see if you can provide us the manufacturer name and part number of the add on module even if you can't get a pic of it.
 
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2018, 01:21 PM
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Still have to get the car for more pics. But here’s the fob
 
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  #6  
Old 02-21-2018, 04:22 PM
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Ok here’s an update: when we got back to the car yesterday, no lights were on and the car did nothing when we initially tried the key. The aftermarket alarm light was out, but even the dome light didn’t go on. We couldn’t attempt to jump it because there were too many cars parked nearby. I tried to remove the kickpanel under the steering wheel to get photos but we didn’t have the right tools. While I was trying anyway, the dome light came on. We waited a few more minutes to be safe then the car started no problem. When it died Monday night I’d tried various ways to disable the alarm- idk t know if those worked and we just had to wait for it to reset or what. The car got home and started again after I’d parked it. This morning there was still no alarm light and no issues starting it. I’m hoping it stays that way till Sunday when my husband can look at it and see what’s going on and hopefully disconnect the alarm from power.

Min the meantime, here are the photos I was able to get, in case anyone as any further insight that might help Sunday or if the alarm resets and we have another issue. The cut wires under the dash and the reset button (hard to see but it’s the silver blob)
Another view of the wires and botton.
The type of alarm, but no model number yet.
thank you so much for your help so far.
 
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  #7  
Old 02-23-2018, 11:14 AM
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No dome light?

Sounds like dirty battery terminals, esp the ground at the battery and possibly where the other end of the ground contacts the frame of the car. Did clock reset and were radio presets lost?

Problem is, I think if you disconnect the battery you have to perform a passlock II relearn because the BCM loses the "password". Can someone please confirm this?
Do NOT disconnect the battery until someone answers the question. But do check for battery terminal tightness, corrosion, and corrosion where the neg terminal meets the frame on the other end.

Also possible that the battery was marginally drained just enough to be unable to crank the engine or supply enough current to stuff like the dome light and other things. Battery chemistry is such that batteries can often kick back a bit after failed start attempts due to the chemical reaction inside, restoring a bit more juice than the battery had before. Sounds counterintuitive, but I am a chemist, and I have seen this in real life.

I have an idea as to where the parasitic drain may be coming from but I don't want to jump the gun.
If you get it running smoothly, take it to Autozone and get a full charging system test (FREE) and report results back here. LEAVE IT RUNNING when you go into the store so that you guarantee no bizarre startup issues when you go to leave. Your battery may show as bad from all of the repeated drain recharge cycles. If you have a voltmeter, read the DC Voltage across the terminals with the car cold BEFORE you start it and WHILE RUNNING and post results here.

Also, the two disconnected wires seemed to be touching their stripped ends. PROBABLY don't want that but could also be why your car started. No clue for now.

Search the web for "KARR alarm Removal". There are many posts; I did not go through them but many people want to get rid of this system too.
 
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Old 03-06-2018, 09:46 PM
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update on car:

the damn thing hasnít started in over 2 weeks. It worked two fridays ago, started and drove fine at 2 pm and 6 pm. 7:30 went to go somewhere, and literally nothing. No lights, no noise, nothing. Waited a few days, still nothing. Ended up changing the battery. Now we get lights, but the car starts then cuts off. I can try to get a video of it tomorrow. Thereís no alarm light on, no dash lights.

Hubb wants to try to replace the gas filter. Not sure if that would be the issue but weíre at a loss. We havenít been able to get it to a shop (mostly because he wants to try to maintain our cars, but we canít do that if we ave no idea where to start. )
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:05 PM
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As I said earlier, you are having issues with corroded battery terminal wires. I should have included for you to check the main positive feed to the fuse box under the hood. Poor connection there will have the same effect as bad battery connections.

Can you perform a Passlock II reset now? I believe that needs to be done when the battery is disconnected. The alarm system is likely activated by default after battery disconnection and the security (built in) system needs to resynch because the BCN has lost power. Try this first, as the symptoms of start/immediate stall are identical to an activated Passlock II system.


Also, you did not answer my question about whether you lose radio presets after the car starts from a situation where you have gotten in and gotten NOTHING. This should tell us whether the battery is truly disconnecting from everything when it won't make a noise.

To check if fuel is present at the fuel rail:
Turn the key to on, let the fuel pump prime, (wait for audible click off while sitting in driver's seat.)
Then follow the fuel rail backwards away from the engine until you find a Schraeder valve. Uncap it. Works like a tire valve. PUT A RAG OVER IT and depress the center pin. You should get a healthy shot of fuel into the rag. If you do, chances are the fuel filter is not the issue. Ultimately best to do a loan a tool from autozone or similar and hook up a fuel pressure gauge to the port and measure fuel pressure with key on AND with car started and going into the stall. This way you can see if it is being starved of fuel. Intermittent running problems like this USUALLY are not caused by clogged filters unless it is REALLY bad.
 
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Old 03-07-2018, 02:30 PM
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Itís rainig here now so Iíll check the connections tomorrow or as soon as the weather is better. A visual inspection of the terminal connectors seemed like they were ok.

Im not sure how to do the Passlock reset, but there are no security lights on at all when I tryto start the car. Not the aftermarket one, the factory one lights as I try to start it with the rest of the lights, but isnít lit before starting nor does it stay on after making the attempt. I do not have a factory fob.

I was losing presets before we changed the battery. Iím not sure if Iím still losing them as I havenít bothered to reset them since the battery change.

Where is the fuel rail? I will try to look around and figure it out and get back to you. I appreciate your help here, as the filter was over $60 and Iíd hate to replace it for that not to be the issue.

I was looking on another thread and I saw that there is a place to purchase the repair manual. Iím not sure which one would be appropriate for my car. If you could point me in the right direction Iíd appreciate it.



 
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