VSS PROBLEMS 2005 VUE
#1
05-28-2005, 08:28 PM
Just got a 2005 Vue and am having an Eclipse AVN2454Navigation system professionally installed but the installer is having problems with the VSS (speed pulse). Apparently, according to Saturn tech's, there is no way to splice into the VSS. We have tried a magnetic disc VSS which fits onto the CV shaft but it does not put out enough volts for this unit (is 1V, should be 5V). The unit works without a VSS connection but there is no voice guidance or rerouting when you go off route.
Anyone have similar problem and corrected it, or have a different make of NAV/DVD that works without VSS connection.
PLEASE HELP!!!
#3
05-31-2005, 06:42 PM
Yes, there is one other one that I know of, but it is a rod that fits inside the wheel-well and you have to magnetize the steel belts in the tire that sits under it. Everytime you rotate or change the tire, you must re-magnetize the steel belts. It is not worth the trouble. I just spoke to a Pioneer representative, and he told me that the N-2 Nav system that they sell works just fine without the VSS hooked up. That is what I am going to do, take out the Eclipse and install the Pioneer N-2.
#5
05-22-2017, 08:44 AM
Follow-up
Newbie here. Not a Saturn guy but a tinkerer. I just picked up a railbuggy that has a 16V twin cam motor in it. Governing out very early. I think this might be the issue. Not much on the net about how to by pass it. Did these guys ever send feedback, perhaps privately?
#6
05-22-2017, 12:15 PM
If you mean private messaging, yes. Everyone has access to it.
Under your name at the top right corner of the screen is a link to private messaging.
You just have to hope they set their preferences to notify them via email when they get PM's. -- AND that they still give a crap AND remember how they fixed it.
As for your problem, most modern vehicles including the early satrun s cars had it programmed into the PCM that the rev limit was 4000 rpm if the VSS told the PCM the vehicle was moving less than 3 mph. I'm not sure how the rpm governor worked as I never go near redline as I like to keep my 97 SC2 w 256K on it nice and happy.
If you mean speed governor (top speed), that was also programmed into the PCM and was around 110 mph. Almost reached it once but too many cops on the interstates. It would just start leaning out the mixture, I believe, in both cases and for the speed limiter it may cut timing advance, don't know.
By definition the PCM doesn't know how fast you're going without the VSS input.
The limit could be set in the PCM or be a physical one but those are pretty much extinct.
If you have replaced the VSS w no luck, it may be by design and stored in the PCM.
No idea what if any diag port you have but if you drive with a buddy you could see if it is in fact a speed limiting issue or possibly a tuning issue with the A/F going wrong and the thing is just bogging down.
I'm guessing it is in the PCM if there is one. Don't know if you could hack it with tuning SW b/c it would have to understand the language that the SW is talking in which often different for different makes of vehicles and the PCMs they use.
If you wanted to bypass it, you're gonna have trouble because you also have other things it likely feeds. It will screw up the fuel map, timing advance, and a whole lot of other things most likely. The only way I can think of to "bypass it would be to possibly put a strong magnet around the output AND a second wire in which current will be generated so that you create a separate output at the same pulse rate, then run your leads through a frequency division circuit, disconnect the vss input at the PCM and feed it with your circuit to trick the PCM into thinking the vehicle is moving slower than it is.
You'd probably have to have a variable resistor (don't know if you could tap the TPS) so that the fake vss signal changes pulse rate with speed.
That is off the back of my eyeball, all train of thought. Probably flawed. Best I have right now.
Under your name at the top right corner of the screen is a link to private messaging.
You just have to hope they set their preferences to notify them via email when they get PM's. -- AND that they still give a crap AND remember how they fixed it.
As for your problem, most modern vehicles including the early satrun s cars had it programmed into the PCM that the rev limit was 4000 rpm if the VSS told the PCM the vehicle was moving less than 3 mph. I'm not sure how the rpm governor worked as I never go near redline as I like to keep my 97 SC2 w 256K on it nice and happy.
If you mean speed governor (top speed), that was also programmed into the PCM and was around 110 mph. Almost reached it once but too many cops on the interstates. It would just start leaning out the mixture, I believe, in both cases and for the speed limiter it may cut timing advance, don't know.
By definition the PCM doesn't know how fast you're going without the VSS input.
The limit could be set in the PCM or be a physical one but those are pretty much extinct.
If you have replaced the VSS w no luck, it may be by design and stored in the PCM.
No idea what if any diag port you have but if you drive with a buddy you could see if it is in fact a speed limiting issue or possibly a tuning issue with the A/F going wrong and the thing is just bogging down.
I'm guessing it is in the PCM if there is one. Don't know if you could hack it with tuning SW b/c it would have to understand the language that the SW is talking in which often different for different makes of vehicles and the PCMs they use.
If you wanted to bypass it, you're gonna have trouble because you also have other things it likely feeds. It will screw up the fuel map, timing advance, and a whole lot of other things most likely. The only way I can think of to "bypass it would be to possibly put a strong magnet around the output AND a second wire in which current will be generated so that you create a separate output at the same pulse rate, then run your leads through a frequency division circuit, disconnect the vss input at the PCM and feed it with your circuit to trick the PCM into thinking the vehicle is moving slower than it is.
You'd probably have to have a variable resistor (don't know if you could tap the TPS) so that the fake vss signal changes pulse rate with speed.
That is off the back of my eyeball, all train of thought. Probably flawed. Best I have right now.
#7
05-22-2017, 01:54 PM
Thanks Derf,
You are on the ball. That was quick. Thank you.
I'm definitely talking about a rev limiter. It just starts to make power when it starts bouncing off the governor. I'm guessing 3000-4000 rpm (I don't have a tach yet).
I asked about the PM in hopes that perhaps the OP had contacted you to fill you in on the outcome but for some reason remained anonymous.
On Samba, a VW site, another fellow has done this swap back in 2015. Here is the pictures he posted of his VSS solution. I just don't know how it turned out other than there are pictures of his vehicle on the road.
So far these are the only google results I've found that seem applicable. My buggy does not have a VSS that I can find so I have to figure out a mechanical, hardware, or software solution.
On a different subject, and feel free to tell me to google, can you tell me where to find the numbers that would indicate the year of this engine. Supposedly it was bought as a crate motor in 2004 and has only 11,000 miles. The motor looks fairly clean. the wiring is quite ugly.
Thanks in advance to whoever chimes in...
You are on the ball. That was quick. Thank you.
I'm definitely talking about a rev limiter. It just starts to make power when it starts bouncing off the governor. I'm guessing 3000-4000 rpm (I don't have a tach yet).
I asked about the PM in hopes that perhaps the OP had contacted you to fill you in on the outcome but for some reason remained anonymous.
On Samba, a VW site, another fellow has done this swap back in 2015. Here is the pictures he posted of his VSS solution. I just don't know how it turned out other than there are pictures of his vehicle on the road.
So far these are the only google results I've found that seem applicable. My buggy does not have a VSS that I can find so I have to figure out a mechanical, hardware, or software solution.
On a different subject, and feel free to tell me to google, can you tell me where to find the numbers that would indicate the year of this engine. Supposedly it was bought as a crate motor in 2004 and has only 11,000 miles. The motor looks fairly clean. the wiring is quite ugly.
Thanks in advance to whoever chimes in...
#10
05-22-2017, 11:11 PM
Stupid question, but do you know for a fact that it is a SATURN DOHC 16V?
There are two possibilities:
1) an Ecotec 2.2L for 2000-2004 L-series or 2003-2004 for an Ion. So 2000-2004, prob an L61.
2) a remanufactured S series DOHC from who knows when.
They tend to scratch the vins off of the crate motors if it is a rebuilt engine, but you could look where the engine meets the tranny on top--they used to stamp the vin there on the originals.
You are better off just getting up on a ladder and snapping some photos from different angles and uploading here-- especially looking down from in front. I can peg the S car engines pretty well, and the Ion engines can be pegged by others.
There are two possibilities:
1) an Ecotec 2.2L for 2000-2004 L-series or 2003-2004 for an Ion. So 2000-2004, prob an L61.
2) a remanufactured S series DOHC from who knows when.
They tend to scratch the vins off of the crate motors if it is a rebuilt engine, but you could look where the engine meets the tranny on top--they used to stamp the vin there on the originals.
You are better off just getting up on a ladder and snapping some photos from different angles and uploading here-- especially looking down from in front. I can peg the S car engines pretty well, and the Ion engines can be pegged by others.