03 V6 Vue stalls while driving + security light flashes 4 times Help please!
#21
06-19-2017, 07:26 PM
Straw clutching again
2003 Saturn Vue stalls while driving - Page 2 - SaturnFans.com Forums
Engine stumble and shut-down when using brakes or back-up lights is not an unusual complaint.
The problem is predominantly due to loss of a good ground connection to the right rear parking light/brake/back-up lighting fixture.
When the normal ground path has high resistance - ground path current from brake and back-up lights tends to seek ground by returning on the parking light high-side circuit.
This directly affects BCM/ECM resulting in engine stumble and shut-down.
There is good news ... (1) there's no known lasting damage to the modules, and (2) its easy to run a new ground wire from the fixture to a good vehicle ground point.
...
2003 Saturn Vue stalls while driving - Page 2 - SaturnFans.com Forums
Engine stumble and shut-down when using brakes or back-up lights is not an unusual complaint.
The problem is predominantly due to loss of a good ground connection to the right rear parking light/brake/back-up lighting fixture.
When the normal ground path has high resistance - ground path current from brake and back-up lights tends to seek ground by returning on the parking light high-side circuit.
This directly affects BCM/ECM resulting in engine stumble and shut-down.
There is good news ... (1) there's no known lasting damage to the modules, and (2) its easy to run a new ground wire from the fixture to a good vehicle ground point.
...
#22
06-19-2017, 07:36 PM
Saturn Passlock Stall - SaturnFans.com Forums
The vue would just cut out 100% and security would flash 3 times, if going at a low speed I would have to restart the car. If I was going at a speed say over 35 miles or so an hour I could just give it gas at the time when the security light is done flashing and I could get it to come back to life and continue on.
I suspected this was a body control module resetting or flaky ground. I picked up a 2nd body control module from a junk yard and problem persisted(but I got my gas gauge and temp gauge back working!). I then did some searching and found a guy that had the same exact problem {same two codes} on this forum and his ended up being the engine computer after replacing crank and cam sensors, and a bcm and finally a ecm which solved the problem.
I did test all my grounds resistance with the car off they all read .3 to .5 low Resistance. I hooked up my muilti meter to all my fuses to check for any voltage drops, and checked the positive cable going from battery to the fuse box as that has caused some issues like this before.
Good luck, I would test grounds with a meter and see if they have low resistance I ended up buying wire and clips so I could hook up to the battery ground and work all around the vehicle with one test wire on the battery ground.
The vue would just cut out 100% and security would flash 3 times, if going at a low speed I would have to restart the car. If I was going at a speed say over 35 miles or so an hour I could just give it gas at the time when the security light is done flashing and I could get it to come back to life and continue on.
I suspected this was a body control module resetting or flaky ground. I picked up a 2nd body control module from a junk yard and problem persisted(but I got my gas gauge and temp gauge back working!). I then did some searching and found a guy that had the same exact problem {same two codes} on this forum and his ended up being the engine computer after replacing crank and cam sensors, and a bcm and finally a ecm which solved the problem.
I did test all my grounds resistance with the car off they all read .3 to .5 low Resistance. I hooked up my muilti meter to all my fuses to check for any voltage drops, and checked the positive cable going from battery to the fuse box as that has caused some issues like this before.
Good luck, I would test grounds with a meter and see if they have low resistance I ended up buying wire and clips so I could hook up to the battery ground and work all around the vehicle with one test wire on the battery ground.
#23
06-21-2017, 11:50 AM
I will be back working on the Vue on possibly Sunday or Monday. Going to Nashville on Thursday to pickup all of the components since I will be at the pick n pull to pick up multiple other parts anyway.
Your last post identifies my symptoms closely.
You kind of laughed at my use of jumper cables earlier. You mentioned possible ground issues between battery and body or engine block. That is how I ensure that those are not the issue. Use jumper cables thus bypassing those possibly bad connections / cables. Just an old trick I have used. I will check everything with a multi-meter when I get back to working on the beast.
There is a lot of things which you recommend and I will check them all. Thank you for your help and patience.
Your last post identifies my symptoms closely.
You kind of laughed at my use of jumper cables earlier. You mentioned possible ground issues between battery and body or engine block. That is how I ensure that those are not the issue. Use jumper cables thus bypassing those possibly bad connections / cables. Just an old trick I have used. I will check everything with a multi-meter when I get back to working on the beast.
There is a lot of things which you recommend and I will check them all. Thank you for your help and patience.
#24
06-21-2017, 02:27 PM
You going to the Pull-A-Part on Centennial Blvd? I used to go there when I lived in TN. Got derf a few items there too. Last couple of times I went, they'd integrated the Saturns in with the rest of the GM cars. Made it a pain in the *** to find them. When I first started going there, the Saturns were all together. Have fun. At least there, they put them up on steel wheels so you can get under them. Here in FL, some don't do that. Just plunk them on the ground and you're screwed if you want something from under the car.
#25
06-21-2017, 09:59 PM
You kind of laughed at my use of jumper cables earlier. You mentioned possible ground issues between battery and body or engine block. That is how I ensure that those are not the issue. Use jumper cables thus bypassing those possibly bad connections / cables. Just an old trick I have used. I will check everything with a multi-meter when I get back to working on the beast. There is a lot of things which you recommend and I will check them all. Thank you for your help and patience.
There is a lot of things which you recommend and I will check them all. Thank you for your help and patience.
#26
06-22-2017, 09:41 AM
That's cool Derf. Just misunderstood your comment. I used 0 Gage jumper cables which have always worked awesome for that purpose. Old military jumper cables from back in the 80's.
Rubehayseed, Yes, going to that yard and LKQ which has a good assortment of Vues. I like both yards. Searching is a bit of a task but being on rims in gravel is rather nice. The one hold back to that is if you want to drop the drive train. Pull that last cradle bolt and jump back!
Rubehayseed, Yes, going to that yard and LKQ which has a good assortment of Vues. I like both yards. Searching is a bit of a task but being on rims in gravel is rather nice. The one hold back to that is if you want to drop the drive train. Pull that last cradle bolt and jump back!
#27
06-22-2017, 09:44 AM
Derf or anyone else for that matter, Have you ever heard of the throttle body cycling like that as I mentioned a couple of posts back? Key in run position with engine off. Seems very strange.
#28
06-22-2017, 12:29 PM
That's cool Derf. Just misunderstood your comment. I used 0 Gage jumper cables which have always worked awesome for that purpose. Old military jumper cables from back in the 80's.
Rubehayseed, Yes, going to that yard and LKQ which has a good assortment of Vues. I like both yards. Searching is a bit of a task but being on rims in gravel is rather nice. The one hold back to that is if you want to drop the drive train. Pull that last cradle bolt and jump back!
Rubehayseed, Yes, going to that yard and LKQ which has a good assortment of Vues. I like both yards. Searching is a bit of a task but being on rims in gravel is rather nice. The one hold back to that is if you want to drop the drive train. Pull that last cradle bolt and jump back!
#29
06-23-2017, 12:31 AM
Throttle cycling:
I believe I HAVE heard of that.
I think it has to do with some fine level re-calibration of where the throttle plate is, and may also be a check that the throttle plate can move freely.
I'll go hunting.....
I believe I HAVE heard of that.
I think it has to do with some fine level re-calibration of where the throttle plate is, and may also be a check that the throttle plate can move freely.
I'll go hunting.....
#30
06-23-2017, 12:54 AM
And we have a winner....sorta
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=199461 post#4
Throttle Body Relearn Procedure
The engine control module (ECM) stores values that include the lowest possible throttle position (TP) sensor positions--0 percent, the rest positions--7 percent, and the return rate of both springs. These values will only be erased or overwritten if the ECM is reprogrammed or if a throttle body relearn procedure is performed. Observe, if the battery is disconnected, the ECM will immediately perform a throttle body relearn procedure when the ignition is turned ON.
A throttle body relearn procedure is performed anytime the ignition is turned ON, with the engine OFF for longer than 29 seconds. After 29 seconds, the ECM commands the throttle plate from the rest position to full closed, then to around 10 percent open. This procedure takes about 6-8 seconds. If any faults occur in the throttle actuator control (TAC) system, a DTC sets. At the start of this procedure, the scan tool TAC Learn Counter parameter should display 0, then count up to 11 after the procedure is completed. If the counter did not start at 0, or if the counter did not end at 11, a fault has occurred and a DTC should set. .......
.........Circuit/System Description
The throttle body assembly contains 2 throttle position (TP) sensors. The TP sensors are mounted to the throttle body assembly and are not serviceable. The TP sensors provide a signal voltage that changes relative to throttle blade angle. The engine control module (ECM) supplies the TP sensors with a common 5-volt reference circuit , a common low reference circuit, and two independent signal circuits. The TP sensors have opposite functionality. TP sensor 1 signal voltage decreases from greater than 4 volts at idle to less than 1 volt at wide open throttle (WOT). TP sensor 2 signal voltage increases from less than 1 volt at idle to greater than 4 volts at WOT.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=199461 post#4
Throttle Body Relearn Procedure
The engine control module (ECM) stores values that include the lowest possible throttle position (TP) sensor positions--0 percent, the rest positions--7 percent, and the return rate of both springs. These values will only be erased or overwritten if the ECM is reprogrammed or if a throttle body relearn procedure is performed. Observe, if the battery is disconnected, the ECM will immediately perform a throttle body relearn procedure when the ignition is turned ON.
A throttle body relearn procedure is performed anytime the ignition is turned ON, with the engine OFF for longer than 29 seconds. After 29 seconds, the ECM commands the throttle plate from the rest position to full closed, then to around 10 percent open. This procedure takes about 6-8 seconds. If any faults occur in the throttle actuator control (TAC) system, a DTC sets. At the start of this procedure, the scan tool TAC Learn Counter parameter should display 0, then count up to 11 after the procedure is completed. If the counter did not start at 0, or if the counter did not end at 11, a fault has occurred and a DTC should set. .......
.........Circuit/System Description
The throttle body assembly contains 2 throttle position (TP) sensors. The TP sensors are mounted to the throttle body assembly and are not serviceable. The TP sensors provide a signal voltage that changes relative to throttle blade angle. The engine control module (ECM) supplies the TP sensors with a common 5-volt reference circuit , a common low reference circuit, and two independent signal circuits. The TP sensors have opposite functionality. TP sensor 1 signal voltage decreases from greater than 4 volts at idle to less than 1 volt at wide open throttle (WOT). TP sensor 2 signal voltage increases from less than 1 volt at idle to greater than 4 volts at WOT.