Saturn S Series Sedan SL, SL1, and SL2

Brakes just won't last for me - suggestions?

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 09-30-2022, 12:27 PM
derf's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Slightly off center
Posts: 10,421
Default

I know. Most tires only last half their tread war warranty here around Pittsburgh because there are so many hills and so many traffic lights. Even if you do not drive aggressively, if you get 75% of the treadwear warranty mileage you are doing way above average.

Maybe the brake proportioning valve is not proportioning correctly. How many miles do you get out of the rear brakes? Are you sure they are not frozen, causing all of the braking to have to be done by the fronts? I've never seen heat damage like you had on one of your other posts on the front rotors. It's like You are stopping the entire vehicle with only the front brakes. So maybe fluid is not getting back there to the rears or the rears are frozen in place. Check the shoe thickness and compare it to what it's starting thickness should have been
 

Last edited by derf; 04-04-2024 at 12:54 AM.
  #12  
Old 09-30-2022, 07:33 PM
Dude's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Pennsultucky
Posts: 166
Default

Drive the car a short distance..... 1/2 mile....coast to a stop w/o using brakes.
Break out yer handy dandy non contact thermometer, measure and record the temp of the Front rotors and rear drums as fast as you can. ( have a recording secretary !! )
Now do the same thing a short distance braking enough to heat em up, repeat step 1
Your temps will direct you to the problem. Agree w/derf, rear brakes must be in-effective....nobody likes doing drum brakes anymore and lots of folks seem to mess em up. just my 2 cents.
 
  #13  
Old 10-01-2022, 10:55 AM
jamnar's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 302
Default

You guys might be onto something with the rear brakes.
I've only had to replace them once since I got the car.
Of course every front wheel drive vehicle I've owned has had the rear brakes last seemingly forever.
Parking brake works great which is how I usually judge the state of the rear brakes.
That being said, it's worth checking.
Ditto for the temp sensor idea.

I have been trying to pay attention to my braking the past few days to see if I'm abusing them without having noticed.
A few things - this car tends to have a high idle (2k-3k rpm) for about 10 seconds after I let off the gas. This results in my having to ride the brake sometimes on down hill stretches to keep from going excessively fast.
Now it hasn't always had this high idle, just since I fried the valves a couple years ago.
Another thing is I tend to brake late and hard, at all times.
In fact, when I take the last exit off the highway doing 80mph I realize I have been waiting until about 500ft (according to Google maps) before the stop sign before I hit the brakes at all. I do make a complete stop at the stop sign too so 80-0 in 500ft I see now could be a bit much.

I've been digging around to see if there's a big brake kit for this thing but it seem's not.
I have found an article explaining how to modify Mitsubishi Eclipse brake pads to fit which increases the range of choices in performance brake pads.
I also found a "sport" brake kit at https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sph-938-62072
Of course at over $300 that's not something I would buy on a whim.

Considering the age, mileage, condition of the engine and transmission maybe I'm just going down a rabbit hole with this and should just put some cheap Autozone parts on it and plan on bi-annual brake replacement.
 
  #14  
Old 10-01-2022, 07:08 PM
Dude's Avatar
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Pennsultucky
Posts: 166
Default

Ya....I'd suggest De-caf. I tend to brake late too.

That Q-panel is $50
 
  #15  
Old 10-01-2022, 07:51 PM
derf's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Slightly off center
Posts: 10,421
Default

Jam,
I love you in a Saturn way but WTF 80-0 in that distance? Of course you have no brake pad left.

How warped are those rotors?

You don't solve that with bigger brakes. You solve that by slowing the **** down like a normal person. Late braking is hard to unlearn, so I guess you suffer the consequences. I think even hi temp performance front pads would just end up scorching your rotors and warping them.

Change your driving, not your brakes.
Dude. ( No pun intended)
 
  #16  
Old 10-02-2022, 10:06 AM
jamnar's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 302
Default

I really appreciate the feedback from everybody.
Until I started paying attention just recently I hadn't realized just how hard my driving style was on brakes (and tires, etc.).
It perfectly explains the appearance of the brakes I replaced back in March.
It also explains why I'm usually passing traffic on the highway and more often than not find myself far ahead of traffic after taking off from a stop light.
And this with my Saturn only running on 3 cylinders at best. I used to have the same problem with our Geo Metro.
Additionally, my wife has often said that our cars can have serious problems that I don't even notice because I automatically adapt without thinking.
I know that came from years of being forced to adapt due to lack of time or money to fix said problems.
However, I clearly need to be more conscious about these things because it's created a bad habit.

Every suggestion you guys have made here are worth following up on and could help make the brakes (and tires) last longer but ultimately I need to accept that my driving habits are costing me time and money.
I need to either do as Derf said by "slowing the **** down" or ... I can't think of anything else except that I'm hard on cars in general and it's going to take time to change 40 years of habit.

I will say though, this SW2 has proven itself to be one tough beast to take what I dish out and still be my most reliable ride.
 
  #17  
Old 04-03-2024, 06:48 AM
mbr12's Avatar
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 1
Default

Make sure the caliper pins are clean and well greased (once a year). If the rear drum brakes don't wear, it's because they do next to nothing, even at their best. I converted mine to discs a few year ago, and the difference is huge.
 
  #18  
Old 04-05-2024, 11:59 PM
CM400T's Avatar
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2024
Posts: 2
Talking

I really don't think the 15-inch wheels have larger rotors on ANY of the S-series. Some cars have different size calipers, rotors and pads (Cutlass Ciera wagon versus sedan, Dodge Charger 2.7L / 3.5L / Police-Hellcat) but the "S" was one size pads, calipers and rotors for all years. I have put a 14-inch spare on the front of my 15-inch SL2 when I had a flat, it fit just fine.

You have semimetal on the front? Have you thought about switching to ceramic? There is that lack of "initial bite" when you first press on the brake pedal, but many people report that ceramic pads last much longer. I have AKEBONO ceramic on one SL2, and I think Robert Bosch ceramic on my other SL2.

I got 10-12K out of the front pads on the Cutlass Ciera, until I realized my automatic shoe adjusters weren't working and the shoes would only make contact in panic stops. After I replaced the shoes and adjusted them properly myself, I got over 40K out of that last set of front pads. Check for leaking wheel cylinders or worn parts in the rear.

And yes, slowing down and braking more modestly will probably help.

If your idle speed drops off 10 seconds after you let off the gas, and the throttle body is clean, it could be a thermostat issue. Your code scanner will tell you.

Please let us know how it turns out !
 

Last edited by CM400T; 04-06-2024 at 12:08 AM.
  #19  
Old 04-06-2024, 05:10 AM
derf's Avatar
Super Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Slightly off center
Posts: 10,421
Default

How many people are in your car on average when you are driving it? And how heavy is your cargo load on average? Are you usually trying to stop you and the car or you and the family with a thousand pounds in the trunk? Sorry if it sounds sarcastic, I did not mean it that way
 
  #20  
Old 04-08-2024, 12:26 PM
jamnar's Avatar
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 302
Default

I'm glad you asked Derf, that does make a difference and for what it's worth it's just me and the car to and from work but other trips can be all of the above. When I have family on board I drive a little less energetically though so there is that.
 


Quick Reply: Brakes just won't last for me - suggestions?



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 PM.