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-   -   Brakes just won't last for me - suggestions? (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/saturn-s-series-sedan-27/brakes-just-wont-last-me-suggestions-12667/)

jamnar 09-28-2022 06:08 PM

Brakes just won't last for me - suggestions?
 
Replaced the front pads and rotors on my 2000 SW2 in March 2022. Replaced the calipers 3 months later, noticed pads were about 1/2 worn.
Now here I am a almost 4 months later, that's almost 7 months since I put the new pads and rotors on and it's down to metal again.
I didn't get the cheap brakes either, I bought the Raybestos R series pads and rotors this last time.
The time before that the pads were Autozone Gold series and they lasted less than a year too.
When this is my daily driver I put about 20k miles on it a year.
I know that's more than average but shouldn't brakes last at least a year before needing service again?
Yes, I drive hard on the twisties to and from work each day but I don't feel like I use the brakes all that much since I mostly just throw it into the turns and let the tires take it (that's why I go through a set of tires every year or so).
I just feel like the stock brakes aren't up to the task and maybe I should upgrade to something more performance oriented.
Any suggestions other than slowing down (been trying for over 40 years to do that and haven't managed yet)?
FYI this is the SW2 with the 15" wheels and I assume the larger rotors compared to the SW1.
Pads are the semi-metallic type.
Still have the stock drums in back.

02 LW300 09-28-2022 07:37 PM

I don’t have any experience with S car brakes, however it sounds like the front brakes might be dragging some even when released. Does the car roll easily on flat ground? Maybe the master is holding some residual pressure. I also enjoy the corners, I always upsize the rims and use lower profile tires and better shocks if they are available from the factory. I have 16” rims on two of my L series that came factory with 15”.

oldmarine 09-28-2022 08:15 PM

A couple of days ago, I watched a YouTube video by 'Watch Wes Work' where a pickup ate the left front brake pads requiring replacement of the caliper and rotor in addition to the pads. After changing everything, he was going to bleed the new caliper, and couldn't get fluid to the caliper. Turns out the rubber hose to the caliper had deteriorated to the point of preventing any fluid flow. He theorized that before it failed completely, the hose was allowing pressure to the caliper, but not allowing pressure to release back to the master cylinder, keeping constant pressure on the caliper and pads. The right side caliper/pads were worn but not to the metal and not destroyed. He replaced the rubber lines, and bleeding went normally and the brakes worked properly. (See
.)
If you do replace the lines, see if you can find the braided metal covered lines for longer life and better braking action.

derf 09-29-2022 03:08 AM

When was the last time you completely flushed the brake system though the calipers n wheel cylinders?

Can't expect brake fluid to behave as brake fluid if it isn't brake fluid anymore. Also, If the brake fluid system has not been maintained by occasional flushing, then it begins to corrode from the inside out which narrows the channels, allows less fluid to flow, and can inhibit proper operation.

I have read many a story of people with exactly the same issue where they cannot figure out why they are going through brakes like crazy. Most often, it is a combination of neglecting to maintain the fluid in the system IE not doing flushes and deterioration of the hoses partially as a result. They will allow fluid to the calipers but collapse internally when the fluid should be flowing back towards the master cylinder. As was mentioned above.

If I remember correctly, the brake bias front to back Is something like 80/20, so if the front brakes and calipers are not operating properly, you will devour front pads like nobody's business because, as mentioned above, the pads will not properly retract and will be riding on the rotors all the time. Not just a little drag but a significant drag. What's your gas mileage? How much heat do your brakes in the front give off when you get to work and pull in to your parking spot?

Also, what are you using to lubricate the caliper slide pins? If they are not in good shape meaning smooth smooth smooth then the floating side of the caliper will not slide in and out properly and tend to hang up.

If you are talking going through a set of brand new tires in 20K and they are not low profile and not summer performance, I'm curious to know if they are evenly wearing down all the tread or if they are wearing irregularly, a sign of alignment issues. Anyone can trash a tire in 10,000 mi if it's not in alignment. What's the tread life warranty on those tires?

02 LW300 09-29-2022 08:40 AM

Unless you are running Goodyears, they only last 30 laps at Texas.

Dude 09-29-2022 09:17 AM

git yer brake hoses off ROCK auto..........

jamnar 09-29-2022 11:59 AM

I haven't noticed any brake dragging but that doesn't mean they aren't.
I can push the car easily on level ground by myself.
The brakes aren't normally hot to the point of being able to smell them when I park.
Of course if I've been a little more enthusiastic than normal on the twisties they'll be plenty hot and the tires too.
My gas mileage is terrible but with the engine running so rough that's the dominant factor. If the brakes are affecting my mileage I won't be able to tell.
I haven't changed the brake hoses in some time.
The brake system had a full flush about 2 years ago and a partial when I changed the front calipers 4 months ago.
Caliper slide pins checked each time I do the brakes and lube is kept up with proper lube.
I'll have to check the calipers again to make sure they are working correctly.
I'll also replace the brake hoses and do a complete flush this time to be sure.
I'm wondering though if just replacing the pads and rotors will be enough.
Maybe I should switch pad material and rotor style (go ceramic pads with drilled and slotted rotors?)
I wonder if there is a compatible vehicle with larger brakes that I could swap onto this for better braking? And would they fit or would I have to put some bigger rims on there?
As for the tires alignment is checked and adjusted regularly and tires wear fairly evenly since I stopped using Douglas tires.
I use 195/60/15 tires which isn't especially low profile but I thought it was low enough.
I normally run Continental TrueContact which are rated to last 70 or 80,000 miles. Never got more than 20 or 30k out of them but yeah.
This last time I'm trying some off brand my tire guy had available on short notice. Haven't had an issue yet with them.
I saw someone is selling a 195/45/15 tire. That's definitely low profile and they don't cost much more than the Continentals.
If I go to 16 or 17" rims of course (to make room for bigger brakes) I will definitely need to get "rubber band style" low profiles so I don't kill my acceleration rate.

derf 09-29-2022 11:40 PM

Can't remember if you live in Jersey or Virginia. Jersey is flat as hell and you should get more than 20K out of your tires. Virginia I can't say. West Virginia hills burn exhaust valves in my s cars.

Are you literally wearing the tires bald in 20K on an 80k tire or are they getting ruined via cupping etc?

Are your struts trashed?

Dead body in the back?
Live body in the back?
Entire family in the back? (Not yours)

? 32 psi all around

jamnar 09-30-2022 05:04 AM

Good questions Derf.
I live in Virginia (it's in my signature ;)) at the foot of the Blue Ridge Mtns.
Plenty hilly enough.

Here's a part of my daily commute: Sunny Day Drive
I wasn't pushing as hard as I often do in that video but I was running between 50 and 60 for most of it.
45 in the tightest turns (not counting the near stop at the one lane bridge).

No problem with cupping the tires, etc. Just literally wearing them bald. In fact I'm surprised at how evenly they do wear out.
I keep the pressure generally between 32 and 34 psi with all 4 tires within 1 psi at all times.

Struts seem to be fine, surprisingly so considering the age, mileage and abuse.

I do often carry full loads but when I do I tend to drive a little more conservatively.

02 LW300 09-30-2022 08:36 AM

Tire life warranty is like battery life warranty, they never go the distance. It is just a measure for prorate for replacement. Sometimes you get better quality, sometimes the same part with a better warranty.


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