Hey all, looking for some guidance. My son is looking at buying his first car, an 03 Ion with 300,000K (around 185,000 miles) for $800. Equipped with the 2.2 ecotech.

It has new brakes all around and from a cursory inspection it looks like nothing major needed to make it pass the required safety inspection at the time of sale, but I'm working on covering our butts with that one - seeing if the current owner will entertain doing it if we cover the cost.

It appears to have had recent some work under the hood - owner stated head gasket and that seems to fit with what I see. More concerning is that the entire underhood area seems to be covered in motor oil - they said it was leaking from the valve cover and made the mess (and having experienced that, I know it certainly can) but it seems like a lot of oil. I've read a few stories of issues that caused under hood messes like this, but does anyone have any insight?

The car sounds and drives good - engine runs well, no signs of it burning oil or coolant, no oil in the coolant nor coolant in the oil (although the oil was super fresh), and the only code was for what was very clearly (confirmed after driving with my scantool hooked up) a stuck open thermostat. Transmission was solid and the car drove really nice actually. AC even worked, although it was low on refrigerant, but I can top that up myself.

So...thoughts on the engine? Is there a bigger underlying issue here that they're trying to hide? Seems to have had a lot of money thrown at it recently only to sell it for what's surely less than the cost of what they just spent on it, so my spidey-senses are tingling.

Thanks in advance everyone.

 

Well, it's an L61 with 185k miles on it, but the one in my moms car ran fine when the car was parked at similar mileage... The timing chain tensioners can/did fail, listen for a ticking, and get ready to change timing chain, guides, and tensioner when the noise presents itself... The VTI (CVT)transmissions ARE JUNK, and WILL FAIL... Hopefully the car you're considering has either a manual trans or the AF23 automatic... Oh, and if it's manual, the clutch pedal can wear out and become difficult to use, but it's replaceable...

 

Any time oil or any other liquid gets on the serpentine belt, it's pretty much guaranteed to go everywhere. Do you see the evidence on the engine and accy's or on the heat shield mat under the hood, or both?

Kinda confused as to why they would replace a head gasket but not a thermostat. If the thermostat is stuck open you may not be running in closed loop and therefore are not getting a true representation of the engine's behavior. Most cars will throw a code like "engine below temp required for closed loop operation".

Also, do a compression test to see what you might be buying.

Per Bones, 2003 w CVT = run away..............

 

I agree on the compression test, but if it idles evenly with no roughness, compression is even, if not so strong, and the L61 seems to last well... The one in my Malibu made 190# on the undamaged cylinders with 153k miles... If there are no codes other than the stat, and no leaks other than valve cover gasket, I'd say $800 is a safe price...

If it uses oil, change it short a couple times, and it can clear up, as the L61s I've experienced started using oil pretty heavily when oil changes were neglected...
The PCV system tends to deposit oil and sludge in the air intake tube, throttle body, and intake manifold; a good cleaning would likely be beneficial... The gaskets on the above might be re-usable...

 

Ok, clarified with the owner some more...turns out it was NOT the headgasket but the valve cover gasket. Makes sense considering the oil mess.

I did notice that the one leg of the valve cover gasket (nearest the drivers side headlight) appeared to have been possibly broken off - it looks like it was "JB Welded". Sloppy torquing perhaps. But it definitely wasn't leaking any oil anymore, and it was running good and smooth - didn't detect any issues that would scream engine issues to me.

Is changing the thermostat on the 2.2 a PITA? Some reports I've seen online suggest so (apparently the dealer method is to unbolt the engine and tilt it to gain access), yet others suggest that it's not a big deal and can be done in a few hours in your driveway.

 

I've got no idea on the difficulty of changing the thermostat on an ecotec engine; never had that honor...

 

I've never owned an Ecotec but love to try to answer questions about them.

If someone broke a mounting hole off the block, how confident would you be in any other mechanical work they've done to the car, since apparently neither a torque wrench nor the concept of torque seems to be involved in their work.

Many times if you overtorque the cam cover bolts, the seal just leaks and you have to do it over.

I will go out on a theoretical limb as I usually do around here and guess:
1) at LEAST that one bolt was overtorqued and snapped the support off the block
2)BUT it did not snap right away---it snapped while driving, with full oil pressure, leading to a spattered oil mess --and alot of it.
3)The question then becomes did it get noticed before the OIL idiot light came on. Because if not, then there's probably much more internal wear on the engine than there should be.

They may be trying to sell it before it implodes. Worth it to do JBWELD and a cam cover gasket and sell the thing for many hundreds more than it cost to "fix".

If the bolts are still overtorqued, the same could happen to you.

Seems fishy in my mind.

If you can get the entire story as to what happened when, how soon they detected it, maybe ok. If they tell you the truth.
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You can go for the ultimate bluff and ask point blank if the OIL light came on, because if it did, they can tell you, because you are checking the stored PID values for the oil light status w your scanner (they don't know your scanner can't do this unless it is a very nice one. Actually I don't think there is a PID for indicator lamp status other than the SES (MIL). But if they don't have or use a torque wrench for sensitive work.......

Sorry -- I may be the doomsday worst case scenario guy on the forum, but there is so much lying, misinformation, purposeful concealment of defects, etc w used car sales that you don't get to the truth till you start asking the in depth questions -- which is when they either answer "I don't remember" or "OK we're done here", meaning you've nailed them and they want nothing more to do with you.

But at least you didn't buy a time bomb.

 

Well, I don't look it quite like that... My guess is the previous owner had a leaky VC gasket, tried changing it, and upon completion, started the engine with the hood up, noticed the damage(and resulting leak), and then fixed it again...

However, I would absolutely ask the owner about the issue, there may be a story he's willing to share...

 

They broke off the mounting hole but didn't notice at the time they initially fixed it?

Bones is an optimist.
I am a pessimist.

We keep each other in check.

We've even broke bread twice and no one got hurt.

I assume the worst in people until given a reason to trust them.
Every time in my life I have let my guard down I have been screwed.

Bones' version makes sense if they overtorqued all the bolts and it DID leak as mentioned above, but I don't know if it would do more than seep oil vs spraying it about.

The answer pob lies somewhere in the middle. Don't tell them your guess -- make them spell it out for you as both Bones and I suggested.

Not sure why someone, upon making such a mess, wouldn't try to clean it up a bit more thoroughly......