Oil Catch Can for '08 Vue with 3.6L V6
 

Hi All,

New to the Saturn world. I am going to be wrenching on my Aunt's '08 Vue that she got last April. I did an oil change a couple weeks ago and found that 3qts came out; and it was very dirty. I'm gonna guess it has been a while since the last oil change. Also noticed a small puddle of oil the morning after she visited last (nobody parked in the spot after she left). Cutting to the chase; since I don't see a pcv valve listed for this engine; would it be wise to get a sealed oil catch can for the breather tube? I haven't gotten into the intake yet, but I kinda expect to see a bit of oil in there. I almost want to get an oil/air separator (assuming that's different from an oil catch can; i.e. no filter element in the can) for that car.

08 Vue

Engine?
XE or XR or fake Redline?

I don't know, but I will find out next time she's over.

If this happens, I'm thinking of getting the same Trick Flow oil/air separator that I got for my Crown Vic when the pcv system was clogged in that car. I ended up sealing that catch can by removing the filter element and replacing it with a grommet and an -AN adapter fitting. I'll just get ****** union fittings to mate the stock tube to whatever hose (probably going to be -10 AN) I get. It made the MAF in the Crown Vic happy at the time. Just thinking ahead.

All three engines for the 2008 Saturn Vue have a PCV system.
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2.2
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3.5 V6
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3.6 V6

No, I don't know where it is.

Air oil seperators are nice and fancy. Using one on my turbo swap.
but it would probably be cheaper to use a baffled catch can. And a bit quicker.
but you seem to know how both systems work

Thank you again derf :)

DropDead; it was a lot of trial and error; mostly error with my Crown Vic. Fortunately that 5.0L was half dead when I was learning EFI and Ford's EEC-IV. I discovered what unmetered air was after installing the air/oil separator the 1st time. LOL I just hope I learned enough to avoid those mistakes on the Vue.

Vue XR

3.6 VVT

Raining like crazy tonight; gonna wait ‘til the weekend to get a better look at what I’m dealing with.

So I got a little time this weekend with the Vue. I took pictures of the engine sans the engine cover. I purchased the PCV AC Delco 12601254 hose and I am going to use the Steeda oil/air separator that was going onto the Crown Vic. Also going to use my reject throttle cable bracket to mount the catch can. Next decent weekend, I will mount it and plumb it all in.


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So, this project got a little sidelined by the COVID-19 pandemic. But I am back at this. I have changed the oil twice since December. I put Royal Purple in there back in March. Only had it in there for 1K miles before switching it out. I discovered a long time ago that Royal Purple has quite a bit of detergent in it that loosens up the grime. That's what it did in the Vue. Switched it out in May for Mobil 1 and will wait for 5k or when the oil turns dark before switching it out again. I will run Royal Purple through this 3.6 once a year to clean the grime. It runs noticeably smoother now even after putting Mobil 1 in there.

This coming weekend I will be replacing the plugs and coil packs. When I scoped out the job; it looked easier than I thought it would be. There is enough space in the rear of the engine to get a wrench in there. I have one question though; does anybody have the torque specs for the spark plugs? I will Google it, but if anybody knows or has experience with this, I would be grateful.

In preparation for this, I am going to set up the air ratchet. I am not sure if the plugs in this car have ever been changed. If it's anything like my Mercury, they will be fairly stubborn. Fortunately, I was able to get the electric impact and a couple quick taps from that was enough to loosen the stuck spark plugs. I will be very careful with the air ratchet, as it is the only tool that I can use to get to the rear plugs. Of course I will blow the plug wells out a bit before removing the plugs. I don't know if the heads are aluminum, but I will dab a little hi-temp anti-seize on the spark plug threads anyways. Does anybody know the torque specs for the spark plugs on the 3.6L V6?

Done! Replaced plugs and coils; and installed the air/oil separator. Check engine light is no more; also reset the maintenance light, which I forgot to do after the last oil change.

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I had a few plugs that had cracks in the porcelain. Are these cracks big enough for the charge to go through and cause a misfire? Other than that, the electrodes looked good; just old.

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Are you sure those are cracks? Looks more like arcing to me from the plug wire not being fully seated on the plug. IDK, just guessing. But if they are cracks, then yes, that would cause leakage and misfiring.

My nail gets caught in them; but I guess is could be arcing. It took a little effort to remove the coils; though it could be that one of the terminals was loosing contact. I still have the old plugs and coils; so I will inspect them a bit more.

My Aunt did call me last night and said that the CEL came back on; but the car is running a lot smoother anyways. I will get the scanner and check for codes the next time she's over.

Damn, I thought you had it fixed. Good luck with it, man. I was thinking a loose fit on the plugs might have been the culprit.

When I pulled the misfire codes back in January, I was hoping it was just old plugs and coils. If I get the same codes, I will try a smoke test on the intake manifold; that is the only thing I can think of that would cause a multiple misfire.

My aunt came over late last night so I was only able to check fluid levels and take a look at the oil/air separator. It has been 2 weeks since this was installed and was pleased to find a tiny amount of oil in the catch basin; so at least I know it's working.

As such, I found a picture on my work phone of the cabin filter that I pulled from the Vue late last year. I forgot how nasty it was. I will check the owner's manual and verify the replacement frequency of the cabin filters.

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So I just scanned her Vue and I got code P0430; catalyst below threshold bank 2. I Googled it and it said it might be a bad cat. I think I got voltage data from the O2 sensors as well. If I’m reading my scanner correctly, O2S11, O2S12, O2S21, and O2S22 are all 4 of the oxygen sensors? If that is correct, all 4 had erratic voltage readings that ranged from 0.095 to 0.8 volts. Is that normal? I would think that would be a constant value? Is that indicative of a bad cat? I’m not a stranger to exhaust systems, so if that’s the fix, I can get it done.

O2S11 and O2S21 control the fuel injection and should swing .2 to .8 rapidly. O2S12 and O2S22 monitor cat efficiency and should have fairly stable voltage readings. If the downstream sensors O2S12 and O2S22 mirror the upstream sensors O2S11 and O2S21 then the cats are not working properly.

Thank you 02 LW300 :)

I hope this is the last annoying question; since P0430 indicated a Bank 2 inefficiency; should I replace just that catalytic converter; or should I replace both at the same time? I know they're expensive as a pair; but I can see the labor for installing them being a good bit higher in $$$$$$; being that I'm in Jersey.

I would look at the sensor data and verify that you really do have a problem first. Does this car have to pass Some sort of inspection to be able to drive? If so then you will have to fix it. Engines that burn oil will kill cat converters. Just an fyi.

My Aunt doesn't have to get her Vue inspected until February of next year; and yes, we have the sniffer test in Jersey.

Yeah, I have had my share of oil burning engines; also engines with a lot of blow-by (clogged pcv systems). The Vue doesn't seem to be burning oil; or at least I don't see it in the exhaust (no blue smoke; or any smoke at all). After the air/oil separator install, her intake remains clean and there is very little oil accumulated in the catch can. I guess I will have to get familiar with engine sensor data; which I have to do anyways for my other project. I will get a good look next time she's over. Hopefully I can figure it out before winter sets in; at which point, I get very little done.

Also, her car has 160k on the odometer. I don't know how long the OEM cats last on these cars. I've only had 1 cat clog on me; and that was on a car with 250k on it.

Try plotting the data for the suspect bank 2 on your scanner, one below the other so that you can see if any changes in the post cat O2 sensor (bank 2 Sensor 1 (front) and bank 2 Sensor 2 ( post cat)..

Then do the same with bank 1. The readings for bank 1 should be representative of normal unless things are marginal. But it should give you a base for comparison.

It's very difficult to interpret O2 sensor V readings as a string of numbers. Plotting the data in real time helps quite a bit

If it's clogged just hold it at 5-6k and it'll blow the cats out the tail pipe. Easy fix 😂

^^^^^^^^^^I should do what the kids do nowadays and install a 2-step. That should make the cats flow better after a few revs^^^^^^^^^^^

Okay; I got a little time on Sunday to look at her Vue. Here is the data as follows

O2 Sensor B1S1 O2 Sensor B1S2
Max 0.6004 (V) MAX 1000 (cnts)
MEAS 0.6004 (V) MEAS 152 (cnts)
MIN 0.6004 (V) MIN 0 (cnts)
STS: OK STS: OK

Okay, I tried to separate the data, but it seems I can't do that Let me know if this works or not; I will post accordingly

O2 Sensor B2S1 O2 Sensor B2S2
MAX 0.6004 MAX 1000 (cnts)
MEAS 0.6004 MEAS 152 (cnts)
MIN 0.6004 (V) MIN 0 (cnts)
STS: OK STS: OK

Catalyst B1 Catalyst B2
MAX 0.999 MAX 0.999
MEAS 0.896 MEAS 0.003
MIN 0.350 MIN 0.500
STS: OK STS: LOW

I am only posting the results of the HO2 Sensor B1S1 results, as the other HO2 sensors (B1S2, B2S1, and B2S2) had the same results

HO2 Sen B1S1
MAX 8 (cnts)
MEAS 0 (cnts)
MIN 0 (cnts)
STS: OK

I ran the cylinder monitors and found these results for cylinder# 5

Misfire Cyl 5
MAX 0 cnts
MEAS 21 cnts
MIN 0 cnts
STS: HI(gh)

So, what I get from this data is the Bank 2 cat is reading low and I now have a misfire in cylinder 5. I didn't have that after changing out the plugs and coils, but now I do. As far as the B2 cat; does the low result indicate a clogged cat?

So, I got new cats for both banks back in October; just haven't installed them yet. I have a couple more months before my Aunt's inspection; so hopefully I will have a warm weekend to install them. I've already soaked the heat shield and collector bolts twice since November. I know I will need to do this more often as the install date approaches. On a related note; I am doing this for my '05 Grand Marquis as well; as I will be installing long tubes and a full custom exhaust next summer/fall.

I just got catch cans for both my Grand Marquis and my Mom's Explorer. I noticed with the Amazon cans I got; that the instructions say to uninstall the catch cans during the winter months. My other cans that I put on both the Vue and my Crown Vic project car, didn't mention this at all in the instructions. I drained a little oil out in November when it first started getting cold. Now I'm concerned that I needed to do that more often. Hopefully, the next time I see my Aunt, her catch can isn't frozen.

I believe you mean get very high in viscosity, no? If the oil actually froze at any temperature, your engine would be in for a bad surprise. Not picking at your words, just trying to understand. I have never used catch cans so I am sufficiently ignorant on the topic but am trying to learn based on your project.

I've thought about this a bit. I think the warning is for condensation that might accumulate in the can during colder weather. That is my guesstimate; as I couldn't think of anything else that would freeze. Based on my (limited) experience; my Fords (especially the Crown Vic) seem to always have the milkshake on the dipstick when outside temps dip below freezing. I've not noticed it on the Vue's dipstick though. When she comes over next time; I will run out there and see what comes out of the catch can when I empty it.

Reasonable explanation.

I believe the older Volvos would develop a layer of condensation somehow when the engine cooled down. You would have a tiny mixing of water above the oil, but if you ran the vehicle to operating temperature, turned it off, and checked the oil, it was no longer present.

Perhaps the older cars ran at a lower temperature. I should look that up. My Grand Marquis doesn't have that milkshake effect; and my '82 C20 doesn't have it either; but that is carb'd and it has over 600k on the odometer.

So, I just checked her car and the catch can is indeed clogged with frozen condensation. I will have to dig out the spare pcv tube and replace it for now. Then reinstall it during the warmer weather. At least I have confirmation that the Amazon can's instructions are right about that.

Okay, I put back the stock pcv hose; but I had to cut the replacement hose because it didn't come with the pcv valve; just the hard tubing and the boot on the engine block side of the tube. But; now if I need to; I can change the stock tube with any catch can in 5 minutes. When the catch can thaws out, I will empty it out, and clean it as there is some oil on the outside of the glass and aluminum part. I will decide if I really want to use it again; or just get another catch can; we'll see. I would post a pic; but I am no longer able to do so it seems..........

People with iPhones seem to have an issue with posting pictures. Post it from your computer