If you change the transmission, that is a different issue, I am only talking about changing the mechanicals of the engine. The PCM learns things like the optimal timing curve and fuel management program for the engine, and even then it is constantly fine tuning the program to compensate for changes due to wear of those mechanical components.

If the only thing you are changing is the block and head (and associated internals), the computer should be able to relearn the optimum curves. You still have to stick with a Saturn 1.9 engine, you couldn't stick in a Toyota v6 and expect the PCM to adapt.

 

Engine swap questions aside, I got 5 quarts of Pennzoil 20w-50, and a NAPA silver filter... Now to get the time and tools together to change it...

 

So... I have changed the oil in the car... Some metal particulate in the old oil(haven't gutted the filter yet)... Problem still persists... It's considerably more quiet when driving, and the knock doesn't get to the same harshness until about 3000 or so when driving... Under three grand it's reasonably quiet... But you can tell it's knocking still... Maybe if I only drive it locally and avoid the interstate?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...&v=xoxfolfszP0

 

You have to get out of the car and record from under the hood. Sitting behind the wheel isn't helping. It still sounds like a lifter to me and I would never use STP, especially with a heavy oil like 20w50.

You may need to remove the valve cover and start the engine, you may be able to locate the source of the noise that way. This engine uses rocker arms, if you put a finger on each rocker are with the engine running, you can feel a bad lifter. Most will fell like you are being hit with a marshmallow, and bad lifter will hit considerably harder.

 

The use of an oil such as a 20W50 is perfectly legitimate when used as defined by a Oil Viscosity vs temperature chart which is industry standard.
Thus when you have both the operating environmental temperature (which is pretty much anything over 20 degrees) as defined by the "20" portion of the weight designation AND miles there fore wear it is no longer considered "Heavy" it is in specification. And add an additive such as STP or Lucas Oil Stabilizer it is more than allowable it is a good idea. Whether you would NEVER use it Keith, I use it all the time and in addition recommend it.
As to the engine damage, which is what it is, every time you hear it knocking it is an indicator that it is getting worse.
Something such as a lifter generally is heard at ALL rpm's but more specifically at idle and will decrease as rpm increases if for no other reason than it is the nature of the beast.
Characteristically if you have lessened the noise through this application it is to your advantage, you have bought some time before ultimate failure.
If you insist on driving the car this way you may be able to get away with it for a while and there is nothing wrong with that. It may buy you some time if you are careful. You know you are going to have to resolve this issue and it sounds as if you are willing to rebuild your engine OR purchase a replacement and understand the expense involved in making that decision. If the decision to rebuild you engine is an option get the parts ordered and in house and some time set aside to take things apart to do a rotating parts rebuild that is crank and rods. At least.
And do it before you put something through the side of the block thus killing the block and forcing an issue.
Good luck!

 

Yeah, my videography sucked, lol... The issue is definitely not a lifter though, I've been through that failure to its ultimate end in my old ranger (2.0L SOHC), replacing the cam as a result... Near the end, the lifter tap was severe enough to be mistaken for rod knock... I crawled under the car with it running(on ramps, in park, e-brake set), and had somebody idle he engine up until it knocked... Definitely coming from the bottom end, as it was loud as hell with me directly under the oil pan... I priced a full set of bearings(as far as I could afford to go if I bought them) at $90... Didn't order, just checked over my options... If I thought I could change them all with the engine in the car, I would have made the order... But with the downtime that comes with pulling out an engine, I would almost rather replace it all together and be done sooner... That being said, I have to scrape up the money to attempt any sort of repair at all... Or to license and insure it... I can't legally drive the car right now...

 

The thing is knocking. Damage is taking place!!!!! Buying a set of bearing with out the knowledge of what is taking place is not the brightest move. And I doubt that you can change anything having to do with the main bearings with engine in the. And as part of a repair of this nature is cleanliness I can not imagine anything relating to a situation where keeping things clean trying to do this with the engine in the car.
When looking up rebuild rotating parts kits, Crank shaft+ main and rods it seems to me that they were about 3 to 4 times the price of bearing alone and probably included pistons too, or at least rings.. Dunno, I'd have to look things up again. That type of thing is with in the technical back ground of a shade tree mechanic, give you something that would work reliably for a long time. That is up to you I guess.
Good Luck.

 

Unless you remove the engine and tear it down, we will never know for sure, but I still think that it is not a spun bearing. If the noise is louder at the bottom end, then I'd say it could be the timing chain or the crankshaft timing gear. That noise is very much like a timing gear with a bad woodruff key. The woodruff key gets partly sheered so the timing gear can rock back and forth a little on the crankshaft.

I still would not rule out a lifter without removing the valve cover and testing each rocker with my finger as I described earlier. The test is cheap and then you will know for sure, no guessing.

I do agree with uncljohn on most of what he says. No oil or additive is going to fix this problem, at best it will only delay the ultimate outcome. I do not disagree with the choice of 20w50 either, even though I would have tried 15w40 first for a number of reasons. Because it is made for diesel engines, it has more detergents and it also still has the ZDDP and Molylith in it, both of which have been eliminated in oils made for gas engines because they shorten the life of the catalytic converters.

I will never use any product that has STP in its label. I have a history with every product they have ever marketed, filters that fail or don't fit or seal properly and in the additive, I once used it mixed with 30HD when rebuilding an engine. It was supposed to protect the engine during initial start up, but I could not start the engine because it was locked up. Had to tear it down, clean out the oil/STP mix and rebuild with just 30HD. Started right up after that.

Admittedly, my experiences with the additive were back when it first came out on the market and I only tried the filters when Autozone dropped the line of filters that were their house brand (and very good quality filters I might add) and switched to STP. I thought that maybe STP bought out the other brand (Deutsch) and they would be OK, but air filter did not fit properly for the vehicle I bought it for and the oil filter gasket did not stay in place. Maybe STP has gotten better, but once burned, I don't go back for seconds unless someone can provide me with very compelling evidence.

 

As an oil additive I have never used an STP Air filter, I used STP OIL ADDITIVE and every engine I have built was assembled with a mixture of motor oil and STP and they started right up and I still own the 3rd engine I built and it still runs just fine. And have used the additive as a crutch to keep 2 standard transmissions working long past the time they should have failed.
I am not fan of additives or as I refer to things as motor fix it in a can as my Chrysler dealer can attest to since I recently received a letter from the dealer looking for my service by telling me I was over due for service, which consisted of some 5 different flushes.
If the dealer thought I was going to run down there and have them run some form of motor or transmission or who know what else that consisted of something fix it in a can at deaker rates when I can buy a can of it for a sawbuck and do it myself if I thought it was important and I don't the dealer had another think a-coming.
However I believe that both STP motor oil additive and Lucas products do what they pretty much say they do if it is considered important at the time.
But it still is the engine had problems and running it is not going to make them better.
I have had lifter noises and worked on cars with them, They will show up right after being started. Rod and main noises can come an go initially but will get progressively worse until pieces come out through the side of the block or thy fill the oil pan with broken parts. I've never had timing chain noises until they became so worn that they were part of a combination of other noises and recognizable problems. I have even owned an engine where wrist pin rattle was the culprit. /that one took a while to diagnose. But run a Saturn out of oil and rod or mains go. Not nescissarily spun, that would stop things fairly short but damage has occurred.
But the point is you have a temporarily driver situation and you need to decide what to do with it.
Your own definition is that it is a nice car there for spending money and time to fix it right rather than spending more money to replace it.
This is a reality check.
Time for a decision.

 

I wanna fix the car, but there isn't money to replace the engine at this time, or to do a rebuild on the one in the car... Given that it's not currently legal, I can't really drive it either... If I didn't care so much about the car, I would drive it until I ventilated the block, then part out/scrap/sell it as non running/ give it away... But I can't bring myself to kill it... I guess it will sit until I find an engine to go in...