I know the kit costs about $130, so the other $500 is in labor. I know they charge $80 an hour I believe in labor, so 6 hours or so in labor to replace is my guess.

 

OK the guy at Advanced Auto is full of BS. The code readers only give a code, that is all. advanced code readers will give a short description of the code but that is subject to interpretation. Most of the time, the guys at the parts stores will go in and put the code into their computer and it spits out a diagnosis with recommended repair parts on a cash register receipt. The code will be printed at the top of the cash register receipt.

Either try another car parts place like AutoZone or go back to advanced and ask them to read the code again and ask them for the specific code, not their interpretation. If you then want to research this code for yourself, you can by going to

http://www.obd-codes.com/trouble_codes/

BTW, since I use a satellite for my internet and it often hangs up when loading a page, I keep this site open in a second tab. I don't know why, but when a page hangs up and doesn't finish loading, I refresh this page instead of the one hanging up and the page that is hung up will finish loading immediately. Much faster than trying to stop the load and refreshing. Go figure.

 

Ooh, I just noticed something, the guy with the advanced machine said it was switching between the crankshaft and the camshaft sensor. Saturn does not have a camshaft position sensor per say. Under one of the coil packs is an insulated piece of metal that acts like a capacitor. It senses the amplitude of the spark.

Saturn's use a lost spark ignition system. That means the spark plugs fire every time the piston approaches TDC, not just on the compression stroke. When it fires on the exhaust stroke, the spark doesn't do anything, hence it is "lost". You have two coils, each one serves two cylinders. One coil fires cylinders 1 and 4, as both of those pistons reach TDC at the same time, it fires both cylinders at the same time. The plate is under the #4 side of the coil.

The amount of voltage developed during the spark is different when the cylinder is on the compression stroke than when it is on the exhaust stroke. The plate senses the difference to tell the computer when it was cylinder #4 that was under compression at the time of the spark.

Most advanced readers used by mechanics have a mode in them that can read the pulses from the #4 cylinder to determine if that is working correctly. The plate itself does not go bad, not that I have ever heard of anyway, not much to go wrong with them, but something as small as a different resistance in either the #1 or #4 spark plug wires, their sparkplugs themselves or possibly even the coil itself can cause the computer to get confused. The computer will think the issue is in the CPS or CPK when it actually is elsewhere.

BTW, if the timing chain were a problem, you would hear it, it makes a loud rattle as it starts going bad. You won't miss that.

 

Keith, that is fantastic info. Thank you for taking the time to write that out. The last thing I want to do is spend all weekend replacing a timing chain that may or may not need changing. My engine runs pretty darn quiet for a 98 car with 245k miles on it. So I cant say theres any loud rattling via the timing chain.

What would be your recommendation for resolving my issue(Or steps to take first)? Start with the plugs and wires?

Thanks again for writing that up.

 

I just went through the thread and am trying to figure out why the timing chain is being changed. It went from the crank shaft position sensor to timing chain. One I presume was from a error code diagnostic the second is from WHAT?
Yes 250ishK miles is a lot of miles. I will not disagree with that. However that timing chain has proved to be pretty much indestructible. And based on the concept of changing the crank shaft position sensor, vs changing the timing chain based on the information in this thread which is a mechanic saying one is a waste of money which should not be an overly expensive job even if it is needed vs a timing chain replacement at an out lay of 600 dollars I have to say that some one is making a lot of money doing it and some one else might be wasting a lot of money to have it done. unless I had the engine out for a major rebuild I personally would not bother with changing one as a maintenance item.
So I must have missed the logic of how you got from replacing a sensor which will not make a noise, to replacing a timing chain which probably makes a ton of noise when it is worn enough to represent a problem based on an error code which there is none of that indicate timing chain wear.

 

I agree Unc, thats why I decided to come to this forum before getting into a ton of work. The guy at Advance Auto Parts said that the car was reading bad crankshaft sensor, so I bought that(Only $15) I could not change it myself due to the tight location behind the starter, and could not get the car up high enough to work on it. Took it to a mechanic here in town that is always an honest guy, but he called me and said he didnt want to charge me the $80 to replace the sensor because when he hooked the car up to see what the service engine soon light was throwing, he said(Im going off memory here) that the codes were throwing alternating "Crankshaft/Camshaft" codes, which to him was common for a bad/loose timing chain. He said it would be $650 to fix/replace, and asked me if I really wanted to invest that much into a car with over 200k miles. I picked it up, no charge and went home.

So now here I am, with a car that starts just fine, runs smooth in idle, but when you drive it, especially on hills or going from stop to faster speeds, really bogs down, but if you "punch it" the rpm's will rev up and it will take off like a bat out of hell. But will immediately bog again when you start the hill/speed process over.

Ill record some audio later this evening of the engine running. I dont think it sounds like a timing chain at all, but Ill let you guys decide. I bought new spark plugs and wires, and will get a new coil pack if that may be an alternative as well. Before investing $650 on a timing chain I will find a way to replace the crankshaft sensor as well.

Thanks again for everyones help. Not only is this helping me to resolve my issue, but I am learning a ton about this car!

 

I would start by getting the actual code first and post it here. That is the absolute step one. The code will be a P followed by 4 numbers. If a generic code reader is used, the first number will be a 0, those are the generic OBD II codes. For example, you might get a P0300 which is a random misfire on all cylinders. This code is often interpreted as a bad Crankshaft Position Sensor but there are a lot of other reasons for this code.

 

I don't know about the SL2 engine, but on the SL1, dirt and grit can accumulate around the base of the spark plugs. I would advise you to look for this and if you see any, blow it out with compressed air before removing the plugs or else it will all fall into your combustion chambers.

Also, do not use any high performance or low resistance spark plug wires, they will mess up the computer by changing the characteristics of the spark. The ignition system is designed to expect a certain resistance of the wires which I think is around 2-4k ohms per wire. Any replacement wires must meet this spec. You do not necessarily need factory wires, just OEM spec wires. You can use Platinum, double platinum or Iridium plugs as long as they meet the specs. I use double platinum myself, but I don't like changing plugs and they are good for about 100k miles or more.

Mine have been in there since 08 and have just shy of 90k on them. My wiring is still the factory wires at 265k miles. I guess I have been lucky with those. I think using the long life plugs helps, the less you change the plugs, the less you pull, tug and flex the wires so the longer they last.

 

Thanks Keith,

I will do this all this evening and post results.

 

I picked up both the wires and plugs (the ones you mentioned) last night. Didnt get a chance to change them out, but will do that this evening when I get home. Ill get the codes first on the way home and report what they say.

Thanks again, been a huge help.