Does this car throw out codes that don't turn on the CEL? I've been assuming that it isn't self-detecting any problems because it isn't turning the CEL on. That may not be the case. My local Oreilly Auto Parts doesn't have a scan tool that reads OBD I. I'll call around tomorrow and see if any of the other auto places do. I've read that you can read them manually with a paper clip. If I can't find a scan tool I'll give that a try. Sure would be nice if the car's diagnostic system could help a little bit here.

 

paper clip

https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/sh...ighlight=codes

 

I have to use a paper clip on mine, Howard. It's a very simple procedure. Back in the 90's when I worked for Autozone, they used to give away a "key" for the GM cars that plugged into the diagnostic link. I wish I still had one, but the paper clip works just as well. The two holes you need to put the paper clip into are the two on the top right side of the connector link.

 

Thanks Derf and Charley. After posting last night I remembered the paper clip method and used it. It only throws out the initial code 12.

The battery was disconnected for a while so any warnings would have been erased but if there had been any error states they would have been stored.

I would have thought that a hard misfire would have thrown off some sort of code...

http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...diag_info.html

…and…

http://www.differentracing.com/tech_...dtc_chart.html



I think it's interesting, though I don't know what to make of it, that the cutting out is occurring where, in the past, pinging from low octane fuel or too advanced timing would be likely.

 

Btw, I measure the resistance of the ignition coil packs. One read 7.4K across the towers and the other read 7.48K. All 4 towers read open to ground.


The tests I've seen described in different threads say they should read 8K between towers. I don't know if 420-500 ohms (5-6%) variation on an 8K scale is meaningful for these devices or not.

 

The first thing I did back at the beginning of this troubleshooting process was to remove the plugs and inspect them and the plug wires. The plugs looked fine but had burned enough of the tip down that the gap was too wide so rather than re-gapping them I just bought new.


The wires all measured between 3.5k and 7.5k, increasing by their length, and I always assume that anything under 12k is ok.


This morning when I was checking the resistance of the ignition coils I don't know why but I decided to recheck the plug wires. Two of them read 4.4k and 7.4k and the other two read open. That was a surprise to say the least. After wiggling the meter probes around for a while to make sure that I was making good contact and seeing the wires start to show continuity and then opening back up I decided that the graphite core must be broken down. I replaced them with a new set of BW pre-cuts and wa la, the little dickens is running great again and not a hint of a misfire.


Since the wires read good the first time around I'm not sure how I could have shortened this process any but it is a little irritating that I took so much of my, and others', time on what was one of the initial/typical suspects for this kind of symptom.


At any rate, thanks all -- the issue is resolved.


When the weather warms up a bit I'm gonna pull the head and pan and give it a good cleaning. The oil is getting dark and thick way to quick after an oil change. I think it being gunked up so bad, along with the possibility of some leaky seals, is why it is using oil and seems to have excessive blow-by.


Happy New Year all.

 

Since your car is pre OBDII, this is going to be a little harder. I don't think it is a fuel problem, but it is possible. Usually a fuel problem occurs at high RPM under full load, that is wide open throttle as you approach redline. I do not see any evidence that you have tried this so I don't know. If you have done a full throttle test in the lower gears and it did not cut out as it approached redline, then I believe your fuel delivery is good.

It could still be a fuel problem if one of the injectors is clogged.

My first question is are you sure its the engine and not the transmission? Have you serviced the transmission on schedule? Have you checked the condition of the ATF? It should be bright red.

If you are sure it is the engine, then the conditions you describe sound a lot like a burned valve, so I'd suggest a compression test or a leak-down test. A leak-down test would be better for finding a burned valve.

The next thing I'd look at is the spark plugs and the spark plug wires but since you just changed them, I'd be more inclined to check the wires. The OEM wires are very robust and can easily last the lifetime of the vehicle, I never change them. Most aftermarket sets do not meet the resistance requirements of the coil and are not nearly so robust. Be especially careful of using "High Performance" ignition wires, they are not compatible with a factory ignition system. Their low resistance changes the characteristics of the spark and not in a good way, always resulting in LESS energy to the spark plug tip.

I do prefer the platinum tipped or iridium tipped plugs. Their smaller cathode (tip) results in a concentration of and a stronger corona to form resulting in a hotter spark that can ignite a larger range of fuel air ratios that might result from a partially clogged injector.

If you have regular plugs, I would not advise changing them right now, you have another problem and it is better to solve it than to try to cover it up. You can use a spark tester that clamps or is held adjacent to the spark plug wires to check for spark. I use an old inductive timing light for that since I have one laying around and its not good for anything else on these new cars.

Other possibilities are a bad sensor wire from the EI module so the engine is not timed as best as it could be, a jumped timing chain but that is very doubtful with this engine, a cracked coil on the EI module which is very likely and would probably be visible at night with the engine running, corrosion on the coil terminals and or carbon tracking down the side of one of the coil terminals again usually visible at night.

The symptoms you list are usually due to a low energy spark or low compression, not often due to fuel issues.

 

Glad to see it got resolved, while writing this post, I had to run to the store so I was gone about an hour, finished up when I got back and now see that you have posted the resolution while I was gone.

If you still have the OEM wires laying around, I would keep hold of them, just in case.

 

Thanks Keith. I appreciate the response.


Happy New Year.

 

Good work, Howard. It's amazing how such a simple thing as bad wires can cause such problems. I'd try some engine flush and an oil change before I'd go pulling the engine apart. Sometimes that can do wonders for a gunked up engine. Of course, it's your car, so you do what you feel is best. I'm basically a lazy bastard and want to do what's easiest.