As I've mentioned before, I'm changing the intake manifold gasket on the 95 SC2 I have because it is leaking. It's not leaking much but it is leaking around two cylinders next to each other so when it fires, I'm assuming it is screwing up the air fuel mix on every fire of the cylinders which might account for the fact that it idles like crap and has for a long time.

Anyway, I know this is an idiotic question but I have to ask it anyway. I have watched multiple videos on YouTube as to how to do this. Half the people say to remove certain components, the other half say removal of those is not necessary. The FSM contains disappointingly few details of the basic procedure.

There are seven studs on which the manifold is mounted, held on by nuts. There are certain things to disconnect to get them out of the way. I'm fine with that.

I've done so as instructed and removed the top three bolts. 2 located by site but all three physically removed only by feel. **** happens and you deal with it.

The bottom four must be accessed from the bottom. I have the car on my scissors lift. I basically can't see any of them because of things like the starter and other extraneous coolant hoses for the heater etc. I cannot shine light on enough of an angle from the top or bottom just to find the bottom four studs let alone remove them.

If I were a paid mechanic I would have been fired earlier in the week. Is this simply a situation where I take things off that are in my way and keep doing so in an intelligent manner until I have access? Or is there something I am missing, like completely pulling off the power steering pump might provide access laterally to reach all four with a long enough socket wrench?

I've already been very creative with my limited tools to complete what I have to date with minimal additional purchases.

I've now resorted to pulling the wheel well liner on one side hoping to gain access to the two studs on the right but I don't know exactly what will be in my way after I do that.

Yes, I understand this is how you learn to solve problems, especially when there is no one who has done this procedure that is around. Even Richpins video does not show their location. It's the discrepancy between 4 videos and my reality that is driving me nuts. As if I'm doing something completely wrong and causing myself these issues.

Where is the question in here?

Is the general approach to calm the hell down and logically half guess what is in the way of things I can't see and remove them one by one?

Pretty sure I already know the answer but I tend to get a bit illogical when I am truly pissed off.

Andy, I already had a huge amount of appreciation for your knowledge, skill, and logical thinking. I now have yet a new appreciation with this being laughably one of the more labor intensive and thought intensive things I've ever done under the hood of a Saturn.

I never expected removing seven nuts and backing off a manifold to possibly be such a bizarre trip where essentially you can't see anything you're trying to remove. I know the design is such that over the lifetime of the car they shouldn't really need to be accessed.

There is also not enough room to put a decent sized mirror in there to bounce light off of to try to see them.

Maybe this post is not so much of a question as it is me bitching about things mechanics deal with everyday.

But you can't learn without teaching yourself how to figure things out. I'm very good at that in many arenas. Thought I was better in this one. I guess I just need more experience. Don't know how many years I will be able to physically do this kind of stuff, but it was my choice to finally dive in so here we are.

A sincere hats off to Andy. And also to Rube who has spent 40 years figuring stuff out on his own.

 

Look at the new gasket, it will reveal the location of the studs. Hopefully the nuts can be reached with a socket on an extension. Extensions available on tool trucks come in several different lengths for jobs like these. Parts houses have limited sizes available. Wobbly sockets also come in deep and shallow, they all work better than a socket with a universal.

 

I've tried to deduce the location from the new gasket. There is just not enough room to work..

I have a set of low profile sockets which I now love, along with the set of wobble sockets where the end pivots independently of the body of the socket. Not sure wobble is the right term but I'm sure you understand.

I have extensions that are one, three, six, 12 in Long and can make any combination thereof. I hate universals and only use them to make ridiculous contraptions when there is no other way.

They just seem to be conveniently located behind a ridiculous amount of stuff.

Thank you for your input, sir.

If I could even get my fingers on them, I'd find a way to remove them. I shall persevere. Thank you again

 

I went out and bought a set of offset wrenches to get one of the top bolts off. I expect to use it on the bottom but again I can't see squat

 

Figured out that one of the nuts I removed at the end of the gasket is actually considered on the bottom. Located the last top nut but for some reason, the intake manifold runners slope up away from the engine just enough that you can fit a deep socket over the nut but the ratchet end of it is slightly down between two of the runners so you can't just put a ration on it. Or a ratchet and u joint. Or one of those hand spinner things. Or a small breaker bar. Or an offset wrench because there is not enough space around the nut to fit any wrench that I own. The torque spec on it is only 20 foot pounds.

Can I put a dimple in it with a punch then tap it counterclockwise with a smaller punch and a mallet?

I refuse to Redneck it unless there is no other option.

What I need is a half length or 1/3 length deep socket. Do they make those? If it is short enough I can get a ratchet in it and that's that. I believe that would help me with pretty much all of these nuts.

If they don't exist, this post demonstrates it was my idea and I get the patent. Haha I'd share it with you guys

 

Mid-depth sockets.
Ordered sunex Amazon prime delivered tomorrow.

I just hope I remember how to put this thing back together again by the time I'm done.

Yay. New tools. 3/8 set goes down to 8 mm. Probably never use a deep socket again

 

With all the time and trouble you've had with that, derf, I think you could have just removed the things that were in your way and been done with it. Unfortunately, the engineers don't appear to work on their own cars and don't give a rats *** what's in the way for certain parts to come off. I've run into that on EVERYTHING automotive that I've ever worked on. I've owned both foreign and domestic and everyone of them have had crap in the way that had to be removed in order to get to "minor" parts that have needed changing. Post a pic of those mid depth sockets if you get the chance. I've never seen any of those and am curious to the length of them. I never even knew they made things like that.

 

One more nut down.

This picture shows the combination of tools needed to remove it due to its proximity to the manifold runners and the inability to get a socket wrench on the end of a normal length deep socket.

The mid-length socket is on the swivel head ratchet, second from the right. Perfect size. I too have been enlightened. This one took me only half an hour between figuring out how to configure the tools.

The thing on the right is from harbor freight. The entire head of the ratchet swivels 360° around the tip of the handle. You can lock it in place in any position of rotation. Equally important is that the configuration provides an instead of the ratchet head relative to the handle. This allowed me to use this ratchet in a space where loosening the fastener was pinning a normal ratchet up against something behind it. It had the added bonus of having the side clearance to the center of the socket smaller than the top clearance to the center of the socket so I could use it laying down and the handle cranked at an angle in a place where a normal socket wrench simply is too wide / thick to align with the fastener.

As much as it pisses me off that seven nuts have become such a production, I must admit I enjoy the mental analytics. That's just how my mind works. You can laugh at me and say I'm obviously not any good at analyzing the situation, that's fine. Feel free to reserve your judgment until it's back together. Or not.

If I've learned nothing else, it's that full preparation is critical, even for things that are on the surface simplistic. I did not study under the hood with any degree of concern.

In preparation includes your approach as well as your plan b and plan c. If I had studied properly what was in front of me, I would have pulled everything off I needed to to see all seven attachment points and then figure out what tools I needed.

People always say you learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes. I am the poster child this year.

Thanks for the continued support.

Tool Bonanza for last upper intake manifold nut .

 

Thanks for the pics, derf. The next time I'm in China Freight, I'm going to look at a couple of ratchets! Even if I never use one, I'll have it "just in case".