forum newbie - bad intake manifold gasket?
Good Evening,
First, thank you for taking the time to read this. I have a 2001 SC2 with about 205K on it. I drive about 50 miles each way to work, pretty much all highway. About 6-8 months ago I notice that I had a small coolant leak on the back side of the block, but coud never find where exactly it was coming from. The leak did not seem to be too bad, just a few drops when parked all day, so i wasn't horribly concerned. Recently I have noticed that my coolant level was dropping a bit, and my mileage was dropping a little (I keep rough tabs on my mileage every tank full). I am getting very close to needing another oil change, and peeked inside the oil fill opening and saw water (coolant) sitting up there in a small puddle. Now I am quite concerned. I have not noticed any pronounced performance degradation yet. Does this sound like a bad intake manifold gasket leak? I reviewed my Haynes repair manual and removing the intake manifold to change the gasket sounds like a whole lot of not fun. Does anyone have experience doing this and would perhaps share any hints? Many thanks! |
Is there oil in your coolant reservoir? does it look like a milkshake?
You seem to be watching the coolant level pretty regularly so I would think you would have mentioned if things looked wrong in there -- but you didn't. Not sure I've ever read a post where someone said they removed the oil cap and found coolant...... Anyway, it sounds more like the beginnings of a head gasket issue __________________________ This post brought to you by Hollowed Out |
Sounds like the start of a head gasket issue to me.
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Thank you for the quick replies! I am not sure I like the news though...
I have not seen any signs of oil in the coolant reservoir (yet). coolant color has been looking good when I am checking the coolant levels. I will check the color again this morning though to see if there is any change. I have not seen any of the tell-tale milkshake stuff when I change the oil either. I will be changing the oil within the next week or so so I will check very carefully then. The oil change light is not on yet, but based on the mileage, I am expecting it to come on soon. |
Originally Posted by derf
(Post 46771)
Not sure I've ever read a post where someone said they removed the oil cap and found coolant......
Now speaking of the oil cap... I dont want to highjack my own thread, but this is my first Saturn, and maybe it is normal for them. When I am adding oil after an oil change, I have to add it slowly, or the oil backs up into the oil fill opening and would spill over if I am not paying attention. I would have expected it to drain down quicker... |
All I can say is...welcome to the Saturn family...........When you said you said you saw water/coolant sitting "up there" upon opening the oil filler cap, specifically where is "up there"? And is it clear and colorless, clear and orange, etc? You cannot be too specific. Want to be sure we are all on the same page.
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Alright. I re-checked some things this morning.
Good news: The coolant in the reservoir looks to be as pristine as when it was first put in. Bad news: When I removed the oil cap, more coolant was 'up there' directly under the opening, but on top of the cylinder head. The first time I saw coolant up there, it was pretty much clear. this morning it is has some of the chocolate milkshake look in sections of it. I am trying to attach a photo of it. |
head gasket is my unfortunate vote
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Thank you for the unfortunate vote Derf.
A follow up question then, as I have as of yet never broken an engine down to that point. How long should I expect the dis-assembly, cleaning and reassembly to take me? Are there any hints or suggestions that might make the process go a bit smoother? I expect to have all of the necessary tools and have been doing my own minor wrenching on my vehicles. Never really had the need to do anything very major like this before. Thanks again! |
Just curious here, and trying to learn more.
What things are you looking for to determine if it is a bad head head gasket or a bad intake manifold gasket? If the head gasket is bad, what path does the coolant typically use to get to the top of the head? |
The path of least resistance. Probably up the head bolts in this situation.
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Youtube is your friend! I think the engine is the same, or maybe slightly different. Process should be similar. Good luck!
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thanks dave!
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Water in valve cover
Originally Posted by Conagher
(Post 46826)
Just curious here, and trying to learn more.
What things are you looking for to determine if it is a bad head head gasket or a bad intake manifold gasket? If the head gasket is bad, what path does the coolant typically use to get to the top of the head? Intake gasket, same thing. Only coolant will enter through the intake valves and then be burned in the combustion chamber, white smoke out the tail pipe. Neither of which should be getting water or coolant on top of the head, without water mixing with the oil to start with, "milk shake on dip stick." It is common for condensation to build up inside the valve cover, especially around the fill cap, on the bottom of the fill cap, and just below the fill cap. From the pic you provided, it looks like clear water, not green or orange coolant, just a pool of condensation. If you have coolant entering the engine at any point, the oil will not mix with it, and it will foam up. I have seen condensation also build up on the top of engine oil dip sticks too; If it's on the very top, no problem, if it's at the bottom, big problem! My recommendation...Have the coolant system pressure tested to see exactly where the leak is coming from. If no white smoke, no overheating issues, and no milk shake on the bottom of the engine oil dip stick, it may just be condensation...in my opinion. |
Interesting.....I know older volvos had a reputation for forming condensate layers on top of the oil in the pan, but once you drove them, it would just boil off.
I of course agree with you on the white smoke signals, and, as a chemist, I understand why "water" (based coolant) and oil don't mix. but if he's seeing the very beginning of milkshake syndrome, shouldn't he nip it in the bud? I guess you did tell him to have the coolant system pressure checked so he would be nipping it in the bud. A compression test might also be of use. Sorry, guess I just had to type it out to see that I actully do agree with you on all points. Really enjoy having you around! |
Originally Posted by derf
(Post 48603)
Interesting.....I know older volvos had a reputation for forming condensate layers on top of the oil in the pan, but once you drove them, it would just boil off.
I of course agree with you on the white smoke signals, and, as a chemist, I understand why "water" (based coolant) and oil don't mix. but if he's seeing the very beginning of milkshake syndrome, shouldn't he nip it in the bud? I guess you did tell him to have the coolant system pressure checked so he would be nipping it in the bud. A compression test might also be of use. Sorry, guess I just had to type it out to see that I actully do agree with you on all points. Really enjoy having you around! |
I have seen cracked intake manifolds suck oil into the water passages and show up as milkshake in the radiatior. That's a frigging mess!
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I never think of intake manifolds as a source for milkshakes. Dunno why. Anywhere oil can meet water is a milkshake potential.
Thanks, Rube. I'll try to kep it in the back of my mind from now on |
Originally Posted by Rubehayseed
(Post 48627)
I have seen cracked intake manifolds suck oil into the water passages and show up as milkshake in the radiatior. That's a frigging mess!
Hey Rubehayseed, I'm not sure how that is possible, can you be more specific? I'm only aware of three ways oil can get into the cooling system. First would be a leaking head gasket, second would be a cracked head and third is a cracked cylinder wall. Logically speaking, only compression can overcome a pressurized cooling system. Anything entering the intake manifold through a crack or leak...water, oil, air or shop rag (LOL) is sucked into the combustion chamber. Maybe with boost, say a turbo or supercharger building pressure in the intake, but it would still have to overcome a pressurized cooling system when the vehicle is hot, perhaps before pressure builds in the cooling system it could be possible in theory I guess, but there would have to be extremely excessive blow-buy for oil to get inside the intake manifold in the first place. Blow-by is the result of leaking/worn piston rings, and/or carbon build up on the valves, not letting them properly seat, causing pressure and oil to enter the intake manifold through the valves or PCV system when blown past the rings. There are a number of ways coolant can contaminate the engine oil, do to the pressure in the cooling system, but only pressurized oil can be pushed into the cooling system...Cracked head, cylinder wall cracked leaking into the water jacket or blown head gasket...in my opinion. If you know something I'm missing here, please elaborate. |
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