Well I finally got a half decent day and unexpectedly I'm working in the shade on getting my 95 SC2 back on the road.

I would have added to my existing post except I cannot find it which is pretty sad for a moderator

Anyway I learned how fuel quick disconnect tools work. Still thinking there were o rings to replace inside the quick connectors and not wanting to build up fuel in the system and therefore fuel pressure, I opened both up to find no o rings. After opening I replaced the plastic fittings with the little ears on them and snapped them back together. Replaced the short vac line connecting the EVAP line from the tank to the line that runs forward to the canister. I believe.

Added a few gal of gas w stabil.

For the life of me I must have primed that thing 70 times over the course of two and a half hours, letting the starter cool and the fuel pump stay cool in between attempts since I put so little gas in the tank.

On the 71st try it started. I got out to admire my repair work only to find the same spray and a bunch of fuel literally pouring out of the EVAP line.
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Or so I thought.

Today's update.

I had half a brain cell yesterday and took some video of what's going on. The fuel that is dripping off of the EVAP line rapidly is not coming from the connection to the forward line. It is running down that line from presumably the connection at the top of the fuel tank or from a hole in one of the two actual fuel lines that are near it. the gasoline is dripping off of the EVAP line where it is because it is a low point in its travel.

Common sense dictated not to put my face directly into the spray and there is not enough ground clearance for me 2 be able to see where the hole or leak is with the car on the ground or shall I say way up on jack stands next to the side of a creek on an angle.

As far as I know, the three lines are nylon and part of the fuel pump and sender assembly. Unless it is easily accessible and down low, doesn't seem I will be able to patch. I will have to drop the tank. The spray itself would indicate a pinhole in something. The voluminous expulsion of fuel can't be coming from the same place based on the different paths they take.

I'll get right back on it as soon as I figure out how to drop the tank with the car on the ground.

Now the only way this car is getting fixed if get the title back, pay to have it towed somewhere with a lift, have them drop the tank and address.

Pees me off. At least I had one afternoon of happiness this month.

 

On the L series it is the return fitting that leaks fuel at the pump. I wonder if your car is the same? Does it leak at all with the pump primed and the engine not running? If not maybe it is the return line and you might be able to disconnect it and run it back into the tank through the fuel fill.

 

I suppose it must be the return line because it does not like a drop when primed. 70 times. Only when running. I will have to look up what type of connector is involved. I'd never touched the lines before the leak began. Maybe I have made it worse by yanking stuff around trying to get the fuel line fittings far enough away from the frame to open them. I released the lines from the clips holding it to the body forward of where I was working in order to get enough slack so to speak to get the release in there.

I will have to look how it is configured in order to determine if the filler patch in is possible.

Thank you, Andy.

This vehicle has 235000 miles on it, it's 25 years old, and the original fuel pump, and while sitting outside for almost 3 years, I have cleaned a mouse nest out of the blower motor and recently won on top of the valve cover which has a recess in the center where the plugs go in. I'm amazed that no wiring was apparently chewed through.

Maybe they like the taste of plastic and gas.

Hell I would build a nest on top of the tank. Makes sense

Guess I will have to jack it up one more time and maybe put some powder on the lines to find the pinhole leak since once it's praise it will get everything wet.

Seems like I need to buy myself a scissors lift.

I really want to put the removable side post type in my 9 foot celing garage. We'll see. And I realize I have a free 150-mile tow compliments of AAA. Don't know if that applies to unregistered uninsured vehicles

 

Could the return line be plugged with ethanol residue crap from when I ran it out of gas and let it sit and everything dried internally relatively speaking?

I believe that would explain the ridiculous number of times I had to prime the system. If the return is obstructed there is simply very little flow of fuel to fill the line up to the rail and back to the tank. I'm kind of surprised it runs at all if this is the case

 

I’m surprised the pump ever worked again after running it out of fuel and then letting it sit. Running a car out of fuel is the easiest way to kill a fuel cooled and lubed pump. Most cars that have been consistently run low on fuel fail to restart sitting at the fuel pump. E10 has not helped the situation.

 

I had followed the wisdom for the 22 out of 25 years I owned the vehicle of never letting the tank get below 1/4. Seems to have worked, since it is the original fuel pump at 235,000 miles.

Same deal on my 97 Saturn SC2. Original fuel pump at 265000 miles. Do this religiously with all my vehicles. The white car is the only one I have ever ran out of gas in my life, and that was while it was sitting. I also did not abuse it much trying to restart it with no fuel.

I need to check the subframe on that car as well before I get too far into this. In theory it should be a lot worse because it was my wife's car when she used to drive from Ohio to Wisconsin before we were married. Talk about blizzards

 

Epiphany of the week...

1) Why might a gas gauge on a vehicle sitting parked for 2.5 years stop working after discovering a leak traced in all likelihood to the return fuel line?
a) gauge stuck.
b) float stuck from tank drying out when empty.
c) critter chewed through a wire from sending unit at the connector on. top of pump assembly.

2) why might return line be leaking profusely at the pump?
a) ****** connection of nylon line broken or dry rotted
b) critter chewed through it because it was the only line that didn't reek of gasoline 24/7, and critters are excellent judges of taste and smell.

Proof: none yet
Intuition: seems like aq great place for a critter nest (on top of tnk + others have had same experience (yes I actually talk to live human beings and affluent aliens from time to time)


Should have dawned on me immediately when Andy said he was surprised the pump in it was not dead that I should plan on replacing it as part of all of this.
That in and of itself is not a tough job --- but it is made more difficult without a lift.

It looks like I will have to commit to getting the title back and registering and insuring it if I want AA to tow somewhere -- you can't even legally tow an unregistered uninsured plateless disabled car in PA unless it is farm equip or one of the other zany exemptions.
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I can get the fuel pump with new sending unit and the assembly comes with the lines of the pump installed.
I can buy a new lock ring for the assembly to the tank, and the pump comes with the green Viton seal
I already know the connectors it patches into do not leak.

So I ask the following:

1) what are the chances I can
a) fill the tank 1/2 way (with no gauge indication)
b) drive 30 mi interstate or back roads (b) to a friend with a lift (with another vehicle accompanying me w extra gas and for safety of course)
c) not have the leaking fuel, which sprays directly in front o the left rear tire (and the stream of gas dripping about a foot in towards the middle of the car), be ignited by the heat of the tire on the road nor be slippery enough to cause an accident?

I have unknowingly driven this vehicle with the leaks on some winding roads for about 5 min at a time back when I was driving it to keep the tires from flat spotting. Seemed to drive fine but I know the tires were not up to temp.

I plan to take pictures of the subframe for my mechanic to ask him if he will pass it for inspection as I only have 10 days after I register it in PA to do new brakes all around, new tires (likely), SOME KIND of ebrake games........
All before proceeding w this. I have many brake parts in my garage and so some of the money to fix it now was spent years ago.

My goal is to provide 1 person a no frills daily driver or emergency ride. Costs next to nothing to ensure. If I register as classic, 500 mi a year max + no insp but who is going to buy THAT? Wife won't let me keep it and I don't blame her.

I have to pull and rebuild the dash as several idiot lights are out --not sure which ones they check. I have most of the bulbs from the 97 dash rebulbing.



As I re read this, it saddens me to know that in the current economic climate, I should not be spending a dime on this. But after all the years of virtually trouble free service, the concept of it going to a crusher is like sending my sister to a crusher.




Anyone want this baby ? It has its issues, some of which I can fix with money already spent.
I also have a cache of gen 1 and in some cases 95 only parts that are just about impossible to find.
If I stripped this car for parts, the body panels are pristine for 25 yrs old, no nicks no nothing. I could make 2 or 3x's the value of the vehicle but I have neither the time nor the place to hide it while stripping plus it's likedismembering my sister

 

This reply belongs before the previoud.

Andy,

The only places it looks like could patch the return back onto the tank would be into the vent line or the filler line itself -- both of which I believe are metal to hard plastic connections at the tank..

Could I get away with making a fuel line-based "T" for the VENT line and running the return into there, the logic being that the vent will be shut at the top of the fill tank so nothing can escape?
This assumes that the tank vapors are properly feeding through the evap line and not there is no significant pressure building in the tank while driving that would otherwise create an opposing pressure up the vent fill line in the opposite direction which would interfere with the free flow of return fuel into the tank.

Yes, I know this is a totally backward assed way to approach the situation and is 100% opposite the design of why that's a "VENT". But might it work? Seems it's all related to the pressures, or as usual, I'm missing something critical.
This vent is not the filler vent, not the evap vent -- but I cannot seem to locate an evap vent or solenoid on this vehicle.

Oh,

I looked into converting this into a returnless fuel system, but the pump is, of course, different, the fuel pressure would change, I'd need the fuel filters with the internal fuel pressure regulator, and those were relocated in the 98-02 S cars and will in no way fit mine which has an adjustable fuel pressure reg before the rail. etc etc etc

But the question here is does it have a chance of working? If the evap test tried to run, it would close off everything --- and pull a vac -- which should let the fuel flow in through the filler vent and into the tank. of course it would fail but it would not cause a pressure build up situation.....


Thoughts???

 

Unplug the electrical connector at the purge solenoid under the hood. Hook the return hose to the vent hose and leave the gas cap off and see if it will run and drive without leaking. The check engine light will be on but who cares this is only a test. Then you can drive and decide what the fate of this car will be. I bet there is a saturn racer that would love to race this car on the track somewhere. I hauled off all the Rambler remains today to a local pick a part yard. It will not be crushed right away since there are still some nice parts that only fit 61-62. The car we built was a 60 and the sheet metal from the rear quarters forward are different. Good luck with this project, I can now move along to my Saab/Saturn project.

 

Thank you, sir for your insight.