the 94 lives!!! kinda...
#12
09-28-2012, 12:31 PM
Join Date: May 2011
Location: penfield pennsylvania
Posts: 101
well i just put it together... went and ran a compression test... #4cyl has barely anything... the one to the left of it read 30 ... so thats what im guessin it needs to be at??
someday in two weeks imma pick up my new radiator outta my 97... ... then im gonna get it registered and put plates on it so it can get inspected.... then imma run it till i can get whatever part ya all think i need to get it to run right... so PLEASE help me come up with ideas... start with the cheapest thing i can do or the only thing i can do ... i dont want to get rid of it because im already in love wit it lol
someday in two weeks imma pick up my new radiator outta my 97... ... then im gonna get it registered and put plates on it so it can get inspected.... then imma run it till i can get whatever part ya all think i need to get it to run right... so PLEASE help me come up with ideas... start with the cheapest thing i can do or the only thing i can do ... i dont want to get rid of it because im already in love wit it lol
#13
09-28-2012, 03:14 PM
ummm compression should be near 200 ish...read all four cyls
could be anything from wrecked head gasket to cracked head to burned valve to broken compression ring to......
do your test at operating temp and stop putting money into this thing until you sort out compression issues
could be anything from wrecked head gasket to cracked head to burned valve to broken compression ring to......
do your test at operating temp and stop putting money into this thing until you sort out compression issues
#17
09-29-2012, 07:08 AM
Seriously, you need to open that engine up, and get some eyes on the internal problem. Cylinder #4 at near zero pressure, and cylinder #3 only showing 30 is telling me that engine needs to be opened up and evaluated. Obviously, your costs are gonna be a factor here, but so are your abilities with a wrench. The options for a complete engine swap from the local salvage yard is looming large ..........
but i mifht just stick with a SOHC
#19
09-29-2012, 08:17 AM
This is a public forum staffed by people in large with a questionable mechanical back ground. Some of who actually have taken the time to purchase a manual and looked at it. Before answering a question. And assume that you have the capability too if not to at least read, but possibly pick up a screw driver with out hurting yourself.
All considerations being real?
You have an answer to your question as to why a cylinder does not fire.
It has no compression.
And another one has 30#.
This lead to as pointed out already the question as to why?
As to expected compression reading? Not zero and not 30. As to absolute value, the last time I saw anything close to 200# was with a fresh engine I built with 12:1 compression. I would expect to see something in the area of 110 to 140# on a Saturn. If I saw anything under 100# I would assume some excessive wear on the engine and a high potential of piston ring problems.
As to hot or cold, maybe in a rarefied world of a high dollar diagnostic center where you have people with PHD's ready to analyze the hell out of a minute factoid that in my world of shade tree mechanics is neither important nor relevant to anything I would not worry about making a compression test hot. Nor would I worry about a leak down test. A clapped out 1994 Saturn in no way represents a $70,000 dollar NASCAR motor any more that I represent a professional mechanic. A Saturn is a perfectly good car in decent condition and can represent a fair at this point in time $1000.00 or less purchase.
I can and have and am in the process of building another engine. I have built several and some of them have been damned fast. And they start the first time I turn the key to start them.
I have also blown up my share and been backed into the corner to have fixed them.
So I would not worry about hot or cold. It is a relative to the moment measurement and a multiplicity of ills can be diagnosed with one more test.
Why does a cylinder read Zero and another read 30 and what the hell do the rest read anyway.
Did you take the reading? because with out it you only have a small portion of the story based on the huge amount of work to get where you are at.
Basic rule of thumb. And basic is all you need.
IF Ring wear or problems is the root cause of your problem this can be determined after taking the initial reading by squirting oil into the cylinder and then taking a new reading.
If the new reading is larger than the first reading the one with out oil, than piston ring wear or damage is a probably major issue.
If the reading is not any significant change at all than the highest probability is a valve problem followed by a head gasket problem.
Why?
Because, oil will temporarily create a better seal with piston rings. And valves or head gaskets usually indicate a hole some where and oil will not do anything to a hole except leak through it with the air.
Another observation that can be made is IF the car is running with the radiator cap off and while running pushes water out of the radiator which in this case is the plastic tank on the passenger side of the engine compartment you probably have some form of head gasket problem.
I would not bother doing anything of this nature hot. Heat is hot and burns the hands.
Cold engine readings are quite adequate for shade tree mechanic diagnostics to try to determine just how broke something is.
Or not.
And these readings generally indicate a need to tear an engine down. And it is beginning to sound like that is the next step.
A variation of that would be to try to find if the rings are stuck so badly which can and does happen so that they no longer function. And they are stuck due to excessive wear and carbon build up, soak the pistons with an additive poured through the spark plug holes. The forums have multiple suggestions. Seafoam being one, but one of many. There is nothing magic about Seafoam. I have a can of it on my shelf. I have never used it and I probably never will. I have used Acetone. Why? The stuff attacks all kind of things and that is what I want it to do.
Also playing with the chemistry of motor fix it in a can usually contaminates the oil in the crank case. No it is not a good idea to drive an engine that way. Nor is it much of a good idea to drive a high mileage engine with a light weight oil and 5W20 is light weight and 0w15 makes water look heavy.
With a high mileage older car with potential wear and abuse in it's back ground in my opinion the heaviest oil you can get is about right and synthetics are a waste of money.
But that is my opinion.
And years of practicing it has lead to only one tired old engine blown up due to using a light weight oil when I should not have. Which is the last time I made that stupid mistake.
Any other engine I have blown up was due to my own stupid use of abuse. But it was damned fast until it let go.
Lacking any further information at this point in time it sounds as if the next step is to take the engine down and determine what you need to do to fix it.
Or replace it.
Those decisions are yours to make based on your finances and mechanical ability.
The options are,
rebuild the one you have if it is re-buildable.
and at the moment you do not know that.
Buy a junk yard motor from a reputable junk yard and either clean it up and install it as it is
or rebuild it.
And then install it.
Why?
Because!
A junk yard motor will have a guarantee with it that says it runs with out noise and does not smoke.
And that is all that is guaranteed. When it comes in they try to start it. If it starts, makes no noise and does not smoke they know that they can sell it with some probability it is ok. But what is o.k.? It runs with out noise and does not smoke, maybe for 30 seconds.
That is it.
If they can not get it to start?
Well that is your problem, you get to buy it cheaper maybe and rebuild it as a good core and until you take it apart you don't know that either.
That is how things work.
Having to do major mechanical repairs when it is over your head technically or financially is not a fun decision to make. You are sometimes just better off biting the bullet and dumping it and buying another car. And start the cycle all over again.
I can not judge that for you.
The last time I was there I had bought a 300,000 mile van from junk yard for $500.00 that ran 7,000 miles before it quit.
The A/C worked as did the radio.
I decided rather than fixing it because it was not worth the money to do so, I bought a late model used van. I should have fixed the junk yard van. The replacement was a financial and mechanical disaster. $4000.00 later I offed the damned thing and as I had more money at the time I bought a new one. A decision I have not regretted in the least.
But i would have been about $20,000 a head of the game if I had fixed my junkyard van. I was just flat tired of wrenching on it.
It is time for you to figure out what you are going to do.
All considerations being real?
You have an answer to your question as to why a cylinder does not fire.
It has no compression.
And another one has 30#.
This lead to as pointed out already the question as to why?
As to expected compression reading? Not zero and not 30. As to absolute value, the last time I saw anything close to 200# was with a fresh engine I built with 12:1 compression. I would expect to see something in the area of 110 to 140# on a Saturn. If I saw anything under 100# I would assume some excessive wear on the engine and a high potential of piston ring problems.
As to hot or cold, maybe in a rarefied world of a high dollar diagnostic center where you have people with PHD's ready to analyze the hell out of a minute factoid that in my world of shade tree mechanics is neither important nor relevant to anything I would not worry about making a compression test hot. Nor would I worry about a leak down test. A clapped out 1994 Saturn in no way represents a $70,000 dollar NASCAR motor any more that I represent a professional mechanic. A Saturn is a perfectly good car in decent condition and can represent a fair at this point in time $1000.00 or less purchase.
I can and have and am in the process of building another engine. I have built several and some of them have been damned fast. And they start the first time I turn the key to start them.
I have also blown up my share and been backed into the corner to have fixed them.
So I would not worry about hot or cold. It is a relative to the moment measurement and a multiplicity of ills can be diagnosed with one more test.
Why does a cylinder read Zero and another read 30 and what the hell do the rest read anyway.
Did you take the reading? because with out it you only have a small portion of the story based on the huge amount of work to get where you are at.
Basic rule of thumb. And basic is all you need.
IF Ring wear or problems is the root cause of your problem this can be determined after taking the initial reading by squirting oil into the cylinder and then taking a new reading.
If the new reading is larger than the first reading the one with out oil, than piston ring wear or damage is a probably major issue.
If the reading is not any significant change at all than the highest probability is a valve problem followed by a head gasket problem.
Why?
Because, oil will temporarily create a better seal with piston rings. And valves or head gaskets usually indicate a hole some where and oil will not do anything to a hole except leak through it with the air.
Another observation that can be made is IF the car is running with the radiator cap off and while running pushes water out of the radiator which in this case is the plastic tank on the passenger side of the engine compartment you probably have some form of head gasket problem.
I would not bother doing anything of this nature hot. Heat is hot and burns the hands.
Cold engine readings are quite adequate for shade tree mechanic diagnostics to try to determine just how broke something is.
Or not.
And these readings generally indicate a need to tear an engine down. And it is beginning to sound like that is the next step.
A variation of that would be to try to find if the rings are stuck so badly which can and does happen so that they no longer function. And they are stuck due to excessive wear and carbon build up, soak the pistons with an additive poured through the spark plug holes. The forums have multiple suggestions. Seafoam being one, but one of many. There is nothing magic about Seafoam. I have a can of it on my shelf. I have never used it and I probably never will. I have used Acetone. Why? The stuff attacks all kind of things and that is what I want it to do.
Also playing with the chemistry of motor fix it in a can usually contaminates the oil in the crank case. No it is not a good idea to drive an engine that way. Nor is it much of a good idea to drive a high mileage engine with a light weight oil and 5W20 is light weight and 0w15 makes water look heavy.
With a high mileage older car with potential wear and abuse in it's back ground in my opinion the heaviest oil you can get is about right and synthetics are a waste of money.
But that is my opinion.
And years of practicing it has lead to only one tired old engine blown up due to using a light weight oil when I should not have. Which is the last time I made that stupid mistake.
Any other engine I have blown up was due to my own stupid use of abuse. But it was damned fast until it let go.
Lacking any further information at this point in time it sounds as if the next step is to take the engine down and determine what you need to do to fix it.
Or replace it.
Those decisions are yours to make based on your finances and mechanical ability.
The options are,
rebuild the one you have if it is re-buildable.
and at the moment you do not know that.
Buy a junk yard motor from a reputable junk yard and either clean it up and install it as it is
or rebuild it.
And then install it.
Why?
Because!
A junk yard motor will have a guarantee with it that says it runs with out noise and does not smoke.
And that is all that is guaranteed. When it comes in they try to start it. If it starts, makes no noise and does not smoke they know that they can sell it with some probability it is ok. But what is o.k.? It runs with out noise and does not smoke, maybe for 30 seconds.
That is it.
If they can not get it to start?
Well that is your problem, you get to buy it cheaper maybe and rebuild it as a good core and until you take it apart you don't know that either.
That is how things work.
Having to do major mechanical repairs when it is over your head technically or financially is not a fun decision to make. You are sometimes just better off biting the bullet and dumping it and buying another car. And start the cycle all over again.
I can not judge that for you.
The last time I was there I had bought a 300,000 mile van from junk yard for $500.00 that ran 7,000 miles before it quit.
The A/C worked as did the radio.
I decided rather than fixing it because it was not worth the money to do so, I bought a late model used van. I should have fixed the junk yard van. The replacement was a financial and mechanical disaster. $4000.00 later I offed the damned thing and as I had more money at the time I bought a new one. A decision I have not regretted in the least.
But i would have been about $20,000 a head of the game if I had fixed my junkyard van. I was just flat tired of wrenching on it.
It is time for you to figure out what you are going to do.
#20
10-02-2012, 08:40 AM
Join Date: May 2011
Location: penfield pennsylvania
Posts: 101
well ... somehow i managed to figure out the problem ... it was the ignition module... after getting arc-ed in all the wrong places my buddy came up with that idea and hello smoothly running motor .. along with new coil packs