Saturn 3 Door Coupes SC1 and SC2

1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code

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  #11  
Old 07-17-2016, 08:34 PM
Raymied's Avatar
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Yeah!! I was wrong again!
It is leaking at the hose connection on the Transcooler.
I've included picts and video for you guys.
 
Attached Thumbnails 1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-saturn-leak.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-overflow.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-overflow-cap.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-ouch-hot.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-fluid.jpg  

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Last edited by Raymied; 07-17-2016 at 08:39 PM.
  #12  
Old 07-17-2016, 11:49 PM
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You mean the metal connection between the trans cooler line and the lower part of the radiator (not actual hose, correct)?

To me that, along with other things in your pictures, means several things.
1) Per Octavious, the tranny fluid is mixing w coolant inside the radiator.
2) The dark stuff in the coolant reservoir is a mix of coolant and tranny fluid
3) Since that dark colored "coolant" is circulating throughout the whole cooling system, that is what you see leaking at the fitting (yes? Hard to tell color of leaked liquid)
4) Is the coolant leaking FROM the fitting where the tranny cooler line mates w the radiator, or is there a crack in the rad tank that is causing the fluid loss? If it is the former, it MIGHT not require a new rad, only a new flared end on the tranny cooler line. If the latter, it will require a new rad.
5) Head gasket: You need to do the compression test mentioned earlier in order to effectively rule out head gasket issues. You can borrow a tool for free (returnable deposit) at most auto parts stores like autozone. Be sure to read up on the right way to do a compression test -- there are many wrong ways.
6) spray around that #4 cyl at the intake mani and listen for rpm changes -- if you hear any, then there is a vac leak.
7) The reference that Rube was making about SOHC motors being known for sucking in parts of the intake gasket applies to cyl #1, not #4. But anything is possible

Please see if I have 4) correct and please post the compression test values across all cyls 5) AND the results from the spraydown 6).
 
  #13  
Old 07-18-2016, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by derf
You mean the metal connection between the trans cooler line and the lower part of the radiator (not actual hose, correct)?
Thanks Derf. Yes. Metal tube thing not rubber hose thing. Sorry. Here's a picture with arrows to point at what I'm referring to. (see image)

As far as #4 - I don't know, but it's something I can ask about when I take it in for a compression check. (It would be nice if it was a really simple fix. I'll kick myself for letting it sit so long if it is. lol)

Q: If it is cracked plastic on the radiator.. what are your thoughts about bypassing radiator with an add-on transcooler? (see image)

Q: Should I be concerned about coolant in my transmission?

Transmission fluid looked clear and pink when I checked the dipstick (before I started engine though. I forgot to recheck after it was warmed up).

I can't remember if I am supposed to check when engine is hot and running or cold and off. I seem to recall it was the opposite of how you check the oil, but I can't remember what my dad used to say (RIP). I'm probably confusing it with something else.

Too tired to google it.. my brain is starting to fry.
 
Attached Thumbnails 1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-saturn-leak-arrows.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-screen-shot-2016-07-18-5.50.57-am.png  

Last edited by Raymied; 07-18-2016 at 05:31 AM.
  #14  
Old 07-18-2016, 10:22 AM
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You CAN do the compression check yourself. It's pretty straightforward.
Do NOT pay someone like $100 for something you can do yourself!!

Google it! you just need to do the loan a tool thing to get the tool. It's free AND you learn a new skill!

If it is cracked plastic on the endcap of the radiator, then that says to me the rest of the plastic on both end caps MAY be getting brittle too. Meaning the radiator could crack somewhere else, and then you'd need a new radiator --- which of course comes with the transcooler lines in it. Plus you can get a decent radiator at Rockauto.com for $60.

In fact, you can get almost anything for $20 less than autozone at Rockauto.com.

So I'd say cracked rad plastic = new rad. Don't get a super cheapie.

Also, your present rad has tranny fluid in the passages which may or may not clean out well and may or may not have better or equal thermal conductivity properties than normal 50/50 coolant mix. Plus, depending on age and # of coolant changes, it may have deposits built up that it overall makes more sense to just replace the damn thing if you don't want to worry about it.

Coolant in your tranny VERY HARMFUL! It will wreck your tranny within the order of hundreds of miles (from) what I've read. Obviously the amnt of damage per unit time
depends on how much coolant has actually gotten through the tranny cooler lines and into the tranny --- actually that would now be a mix of tranny fluid and coolant.

Tranny fluid was clear and pink while cold says you likely have not trashed things very far. Check the owner's manual. I think you check it at operating temp w car in neutral and ebrake on -- actually I haven't owned an automatic since 91 so just look it up. You may not be able to tell the difference in the tranny fluid since if the coolant tank looks like it does as a coolant heavy mix, you don't really know what you're looking for.

It'd be nice if you could use the tranny fluid LEVEL as a hard indicator of how much coolant has filled into the tranny through the tranny cooler line, , but ultimately you really cant, because if the tranny cooler line inside the radiator is leaking, you don't know how much tranny fluid has leaked out into the coolant nor do you know how much coolant has seeped into the tranny cooler line .
----------
Do the compression test yourself. Here's why:
In the process you'll be pulling spark plug boots ---look for corrosion and wet oily plug boots. If they are, a flashlight down the tube will show a puddle of oil around the plug. The oil has been wicking up betw the plug and the boot (capillary action) and diverting the spark to ground.
This is the sign of a partially failed cam cover gasket, as each plug hole has a sealing gasket ring around it to keep the oil out.

Plugs, when removed, should have a light tan coating on them and still be close to the 0.040" gap. For now, regap and set aside, and note if #4 was way off.

So now you've just checked two potential causes of misfire just while on your way to doing the compression test!!!

PLUS no mechanic will touch the car if they are told it MIGHT be a head gasket issue....
----------------
Ultimately, if I planned to continue driving this car regularly, I would:
1) replace the radiator if the crack is in the plastic or if the leak is due to the radiator side of the flared fitting.

2)Disconnect the trans cooler lines and drain and full flush of tranny including lines to get all coolant out BEFORE installing new radiator/transcooler) Consider professionally done to access all the tiny passages.
3) Drain n Full flush of entire cooling system BEFORE putting on new radiator so as not to contaminate it with ATF.

4) Repair leak at tranny cooler line fitting if it was due to the tranny line side of the flare.
5) Install new rad w integral cooler and attach tranny cooler lines to it.
6) Add proper levels of tranny fluid and 50 50 water/coolant approp for your car
7) start up and immediately check tranny coolant lines for leaks, then rest of cooling system.
 
  #15  
Old 07-18-2016, 03:38 PM
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Ha ha thanks for the vote of confidence Derf. I’ve watched richpin’s video on how to do a compression check and change out the radiator even. He makes everything look so easy. (as if! lol)

Let me take a step back for a second though. The initial concern about compression loss and the dreaded blown head gasket was based on the assumption that it was oil in the coolant, combined with the misfire code.

Finding out that it’s ATF in the coolant.. opens the door that maybe these are two separate events.

My brother in Afghanistan pointed out this morning that it is possible that the code could be from the rough start from sitting so long and nothing more. (That first start was really, really rough, but then it settled out). I never cleared the code, so it is possible the misfire is a non issue.

Let me clear the code and see if it happens again before I worry about compression testing.

I like your advise about the plastic on the radiator cracking. Replacing it makes sense.

Since it needs replacing, would you advise throwing some Bars Leak HDC in it and see if that slows the leak down long enough to see if it throws the code again? I don’t want to add more coolant into the transmission if I don’t have to (assuming it is).

As far as the radiator..

1. Do you think I’ll need to buy new hoses and trans line too or will professional flushing be enough? I checked RockAuto.. the radiator doesn’t come with hoses or lines. (See image)

2. As far as logistics.. after I get things flushed.. do I need to tow it or is it okay to drive a few miles with leaky radiator? How do I move it between the flush and the replacement? Afraid flushing might make small leaks bigger.

3. Coolant question: I read orange, but see green. Which one do I use? It has green in it right now (I bought it from a Saturn Tech.. so I guess green is okay?)

4. Do I need to treat new coolant system with ginger root tablets? (I read this is a thing with this year of SC).

Ahg!! It’s these little unknowns that drive me crazy and keep me fearful of working on my own car. (Well.. that and not having any tools! ha ha ha)

Thanks again Derf. Wish me luck!
 
Attached Thumbnails 1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-screen-shot-2016-07-18-3.27.15-pm.png  
  #16  
Old 07-18-2016, 04:48 PM
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I don't know if a simple drain n flush at home is enough to rid the coolant lines and engine passages of tranny fluid. Yes I would buy the new hoses. New rads never come w them because they fit multiple cars so the hoses would be different.

Same deal for the tranny. This is much more difficult since there are tiny passages that you cannot possibly get to clean out.

What do you guys thinK?

The misfire could very well have been triggered by the rough start. But if you've been driving it and it is still throwing that code, it may be real.
Plus it doesn't hurt to check the plugs -- so I would at least do that for now

Gotta go cook dinner. More later
 
  #17  
Old 07-18-2016, 06:47 PM
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I believe a radiator and cooling system flush is easy enough to do at home. there is a pour in product you can use that clean it put pretty nicely or you can use dish soap (trick from my diesel mechanic friend, he does that all the time on 6.0s, they love to lift gaskets). just dont use too much, or youll be left with foam for daaaaays. you can look that up if your unsure of the procedure, fairly simple.

Trans im not too sure on, you can get alot of trans fluid and drain now, refill, drive for a few hundred miles, and then drain again and refill. change filters at the end. I would seek professional advice on the trans, but thats what ive always done.

Green coolant is fine. once the system is flushed it doesnt matter what coolant you put in, as long as you dont mix colors. I ditched the dexcool in favor for regular green coolant in mine when I put a new rad in.

do indeed check plugs
 
  #18  
Old 07-18-2016, 07:58 PM
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Way back early in your posts you said your car ran rough on a restart after sitting for several months. Does it run rough now? If it runs rough enough it will set a misfire code. If it hasn't run rough since the time you remember, clear the codes and worry about your radiator.
 
  #19  
Old 07-19-2016, 07:51 AM
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Never, never, ever use stop leak in your cooling system. That crap should be outlawed. It will clog your heater core and cooling passages in the engine, along with passages in the radiator. Just do the proper thing and replace the radiator. It's shot, as evidenced by the trans cooler being busted and needs replacing anyway. Skip the stop leak. Once you replace the radiator, you should be just fine.
 
  #20  
Old 07-19-2016, 05:39 PM
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Yeah… doesn’t look good.

I cleared the codes and let it idle in place till it warmed up. Check the codes again and still getting a P0304 code (pending) with a hesitating idle, like it’s thinking about dying (even after warm). Plus it’s shaking all over the place like I broke a rear motor mount too. Uhg.

I took better pictures of the various fluids to show differences (see images)… and to be honest…. it does NOT look like ATF in the overflow. It looks like old burnt oil. Especially compared to the nice pink, clear tranny fluid on dipstick.

So.. yeah. I think I’ve got my answer. It might be fixable, but I don’t have skills, means, or money to go down that rabbit hole.

Time to shop for a new Saturn.

Thanks everyone for your time, effort, and expertise. It is greatly appreciated.
 
Attached Thumbnails 1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-img_6756.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-img_6777.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-img_6776.jpg   1999 SC1 coolant leak, oil in coolant, P0304 code-img_6770.jpg  
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