Hi.. I have a 1999 SC1 (around 170,000 miles) that I drove from California to Virginia last year. Noticed a small amount of oil in overflow tank halfway across in Oklahoma. (No milkshake froth, coolant loss or overheating). I drove it on to Virginia with no problems.

January, I noticed a small stream of coolant pouring out from driver side. I drove it the few miles home and parked it. (Again.. no overheating, no milkshake froth, didn't even need to add fluid.. a very small leak that stopped. Thought it might be a small leak that had pooled).

Later, when I had my brother look at it, we couldn't get it to do it again... no leak showed after 30 mins of idling. He was leaving for Afghanistan, so I just left it parked until warmer weather and set about looking for a local mechanic willing to work on it.

Several months later.. after jump starting and coughing awake.. I see the leak has become larger (a steady drip on right side of radiator), but now I have a P0304 code.

Are these related? Is the loss of compression in #4 confirmation that I've got a cracked head even though I have no coolant loss or overheating?

What advise can you give me to figure out if this old car is worth saving? I don't really want to invest in radiator just to find out I need a new engine. Nor do I want to give up on a reliable car that gets 40+mpg that just needs a radiator and a tune up.

FYI: Replaced the intake manifold gasket in California before driving across country. I don't believe I have water in the oil. It passed the 'sizzle test'.. if you know what that is. lol

Also... does anyone know a mechanic nearly Fredericksburg, VA willing to work on an old Saturn? The ones I've talk to just roll their eyes and walk away.

I love my Saturns.. this is my 3rd SC. These forums have been a godsend. I honestly don't know what else to drive. Thanks

 

Which engine does it have? Last summer I had a leak in my intake manifold where a heater hose connects. It was hard to see at first but kept getting worse until it became quite visible. There is a repair kit available.for that problem that is talked about in other places here. It cost me about $75.00 and an afternoon's time to fix.

 

Thanks for responding Tom. It's a 99 SC1 with a 1.9L A/T @ 170k. The leak is more obvious now that it's warmer.. it is on the main body of the radiator (not near connections, hoses, or seals). I know radiator needs replaced, just trying to discern if it's worth the bother with oil in the overflow and lost compression on #4. I don't know what those are about or how to go about finding out. Any thoughts?

(Correction: leak isn't where I thought it was. I was going by my apparently failing memory here).

 

My first guess is bad head gasket. It took me about 10 hours to replace one on my 98 Escort last month. I had never replaced one before. I was told that a shop would have wanted about $1200 to do the job. The radiator is easier to replace but you need to fix the other problem or you won't have a good engine for long.

The P0304 code is telling you that cylinder #4 is misfiring. The head itself might be good but that's beyond my ability to tell you.

 

I THINK what Tom wants to know is if it's the SOHC or DOHC engine, right Tom? IDK, just guessing. BUT, didn't all the 1's come with the SOHC and the 2's with the DOHC? Once again, IDK, just guessing. After all, I'm NOT a mechanic. I think both are prone to defective head gaskets around #4, though. If the radiator is leaking, you'll have to replace it. You can't fix that cheap crap. Possibly some JB Weld would be a temporary repair, but I'd just get another one if it were mine. Replace the plug and see if that helps. Be ready to replace the head gasket though.

 

WARNING: The following post contains an unedited stream of consciousness analysis of the situation. I think it is a possible explanation, but in re reading it, it is way out there.

Somebody please find the hole in my logic and point it out so that my theory can be disqualified. I've never heard of such a situation analyzed as such, but it came out of my head so I'm sharing. Hopefully it is not a waste of time or a distraction.

I need to go clean the shower.
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Because of ring wear, some of the coolant may be finding its way into the oil pan. It'd be burned when the car is running but would run down the cyl past the rings with the car off and end up in the oil pan. Or it may be the junction that breaks off as mentioned earlier in the post.

With the insufficient seal of the intake mani near #4, a vac leak and loss of compression will lead to a misfire in #4.

To test the last statement, spray some throttle body cleaner around the intake mani where it meets the head near #4. Change in idle confirms bad mani gasket seal.

And what are the compression readings at operating temp across all 4 cyls w the throttle body held at WOT?

You mentioned reduced compression in #4 but if it was 0 I would think you would have said so specifically.

Please post compression readings and results of the vac leak test.

 

The tanks on the side of the radiator will give up eventually since theyre plastic. Mine failed on the drivers side of rad (do you mean right side of rad as drivers side? thats what im assuming) If your rad is leaking, its possible that the trans cooler inside the rad has failed and not motor oil your seeing in the coolant but atf. However, I agree with derf, do a compression/leak down test and go from there. check all your coolant hoses while your in there. try the brake clean/throttle body cleaner around the intake manfold.

Is it a notisable missfire or the car feels normal

 

You guys are awesome!

Tom - Yeah.. if it’s a head gasket I’m not going to bother. I’d rather invest the money into a newer car. Just have no clue what to get.. this is my third SC. I haven't driven anything else for 15 years.

Rubehayseed - Yep I am pretty sure SC1 is SOHC and SC2 is DOHC. Mine is a SOHC.

My dad always said to start with the cheap fixes first. I am tempted to change the plugs and wires, then see if some stop leak patches the radiator. I read one of the dealer bulletins recommended using their version of stop leak in some cases.

My mechanic friend doesn’t even want to work on it.. he said I should drive it until it dies then let him charge his buddies to shoot it. (Welcome to Virginia! lol)

Derf - I like your thinking, except it’s oil in the water not water in the oil. From what I’ve read on the forum.. different failures cause one or the other and sometimes both.

I have yet to do a compression test. I just have a P0304 code. So.. I don’t know if it just needs new plugs and wires or a complete rebuild. I guess that's the next step.

There has been no significant loss of coolant. I haven’t even had to top it off yet. It hasn’t overheated or bubbled up even which is why I am hopeful it’s not a blown head gasket or cracked cylinder.

Octaves - Yes.. driver’s side right, but in the coils not the plastic. I guess it could be both though. I'll check again. As far as the misfire.. it was driving fine when I parked it in January after it poured out coolant. The code didn’t show up until I started it again a few months later. It was really rough starting, but I figured it was sputtering from sitting so long. It eventually warmed up and evened out. It might not even be an issue.

Between the black stuff in the overflow, pouring out coolant, and the code.. I’ve been afraid to drive it. Don’t want to make a small problem larger.

I’ll start it up today and take pictures of the leak and the black stuff in the overflow. Any way to verify it’s burnt ATF vs Old Oil?

Thanks guys…

 

Lost compression on #4? Huh? If you didn't measure the compression, how did you reach that conclusion? ? ??????????????
Many things can cause a misfire and lost compression is only one of them.

Vac leaks intake mani
Spark gaps
gas fouling
oil fouling
arcing
coils
cracked plug
clogged fuel injector

need I go on?

We are all here trying to help you, including me. We have nothing to go by except what you type.

You tell me there is a loss in compression--I assume you've measured it. And that it's a valid part of the info to use for diagnosis. In fact my whole explanation, while completely wrong, was based on that lost compression.

My explanation is therefore bogus. So I was wrong. Whatever---it was based on your info. I care that we all get it right in the end.
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Please be careful what you list as fact vs what you include as assumptions. It may mean the difference between a solution and a never-solved mystery.
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Do the intake mani test and the compression test and let's see what we have.

 

Uh okay Derf.. my mistake for assuming a misfire automatically meant I have lost compression and thank you for the clarification. I didn’t realize there was a difference. I am not a mechanic, just a girl doing her best to research a problem on this site to try to save her old car and hopefully a few bucks.

You are very correct that you have nothing to go on but what I type. Trust me.. that's the ONLY reason why I bothered to point out to you that your advise kept referring to water getting into the oil.. not oil in the water. I thought it might make a difference… which apparently it has.

No insult intended. Please take it back a notch. I am doing the best I can.

All I have is the code at this point. I don’t have to means to do a pressure test myself and so far both mechanics I’ve gone to won’t even bother talking to me after I tell them I have an old saturn with oil in the overflow. They simply assume it’s a blown head gasket and walk away.

My hope with this forum question is to get armed with enough info to convince a local mechanic to help me. So… trust me I am thrilled at all your suggestions.. and willingness to help.