Steering Column Replacement
 

I have a 2001 Saturn SC2 with a locked ignition cylinder. The tumblers appear to have fallen out of place, so I needed to get it repaired. However, Saturn is no more so I had to call GM dealers to take care of the problem. All dealerships that I called told me that there was nothing that I could do to just replace the cylinder because the key would not turn. Instead, I would need to get it drilled out and then put a new one. This didn't seem like a bad option except for the fact that it was going to cost me anywhere from 1000-1500 in parts and labor.

I started looking around and found a different steering column and key. So I decided to go with the replacement of the entire steering column rather than just the ignition.

My question is, do I need to know anything particular about changing this out? Will the ignition need to be programmed to the car? And does anyone have any pictures or a DIY on the replacement? I have been searching without a single shred of help for the past 4 hours.

Thank you for any help that you guys can provide me.

Update:
I got the new steering column in. Removing the airbag from the old steering wheel was really the only issue. However, now that I have everything in and everything connected, I still cannot start the car.

I have triple checked to make sure that all wiring is connected. The key does turn this time, but when I turn it, nothing happens. I don't even get any lights on the dash. I am still able to get power to the radio (just the clock), lights and hazards. Normally I would say that this was a case of a bad battery, but with all other lights working, I would expect the lights on the dash to work.

Anyone know what else could cause this?

I know this is a foolish question/comment, but did your replacement steering column come from a 2001 SC2 ???

Yes, it came from the same type of car... same model and year. The steering column is identical to the one replaced.

Another update:
I just found out that the car actually died before the key got stuck. When the key was turned prior to getting stuck, there was nothing. The outside lights would work, which indicated a good battery, but there was no sound from the radio or lights on the inside. The door locks work, which would also indicate that the battery is fine.

Possibly a fuse? I checked the fuse box under the hood and all fuses are good. Is there another fuse box somewhere else or something else that I should be looking for?

Look on the center console - on the passanger's side of the car - you should find a panel there. Behind it is the Instrument Panel Junction Block (IPJB) along with the associated fuses....

Okay, so I checked all the fuses that I could find and there was only one that was blown. That was the cigarette lighter fuse which, obviously, had nothing to do with the instrument panel.

I have taken all the fuses out and checked them with a multimeter just to make sure that they were still good. Everything checks out fine. What else could it be?

The start circuit is supplied power from the ignition fuse, a 30 Amp fuse from the fuse block under the hood.
The ignition run circuit is supplied power from the Ignition Run fuse a 10 Amp fuse from the WP fuse block behind the center of the dash as is the Body Control Module Fuse, a 10 AMP fuse.
Your interior lights are controlled by the Body Control Module (BCM) located behind the left side of the dash.

When you say the center of the dash, I am assuming you mean the fuse box that is located inside the vehicle in the center console. The same one mentioned previously.

All fuses test good. I have taken each one out, inspected them and also test continuity on them. All are functioning properly. I have not, however, tested what fuses are getting power. I have tried, but this seems futile seeing how when I turn the key, nothing happens.

Any other idea?

When you say the center of the dash, I am assuming you mean the fuse box that is located inside the vehicle in the center console. The same one mentioned previously.

All fuses test good. I have taken each one out, inspected them and also test continuity on them. All are functioning properly. I have not, however, tested what fuses are getting power. I have tried, but this seems futile seeing how when I turn the key, nothing happens.

Any other idea?
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Well, yuh, but before one can go a whole lot further there has to be a realization take place the electronically your Saturn is quite complex. A simplistic statement such as the key turns and nothing happens does not really cover the symptoms unless you have a definition as to what exactly nothing is and what it is that should be happening.
There are a hand full of computers that run that car along with smart boards with in subassemblies some of which are in turn linked or locked into the operation of other parts of the car.
It sounds to some extent that the Body Computer may not be functioning. If the car were mine I would be checking to see if there is power at the following;
Body computer fuse, 10 Amp Hot all the time
Body Fuse, 10 Amp, Hot all the time.
Ignition 1 fuse, 10 Amp Hot in Run or Start Mode.
These fuses are located in the I/P Fuse Block which the service literature I have refers to as the center of the dash, but the pictorial reference shows that to be the passenger side of the console.
The problem becomes at this point in time if there is no power there under the conditions indicated then why isn’t there?
And if there is power there under the conditions indicated where do you go next and with out a wiring diagram to show the interconnections involved including ground connections than what are you looking for.
So I would kind of suggest that you go by a Checkers or O’Riley or Autozone and invest what ever it takes to purchase a servicing manual with electrical diagrams so you can chase these things down.
If you have a meter and it sounds like you do but if you don’t you can buy a serviceable digital voltmeter from Harbor Freight for $2.00 on sale if you watch for it or under $6.00 normal price which is more than adequate to get the job done.
It would also help a bit if there were a list of things that did not work AND the conditions under which they did not work such as.
Key in Run Mode
followed by
A list of observations from the dashboard, dome lights, locks and windows. Along with the voltage readings at those 3 fuses.
It sounds a bit like something catastrophic took place before or in conjunction with the failure of the ignition switch mechanically.
It could be no more than a broken wire some where shutting down something like the body computer or something is shorted out along with a fried computer

Alright, I will go check those three fuses and get the voltage readings. I know that they are good because the continuity is there. But I didn't check the voltages, due to the fact that I wasn't really sure what ones SHOULD be hot and ones should not.

Here is what happened to the car -
Car was in an automatic car wash running just fine; my wife was the driver. The car wash finished, my wife put the car in drive and the car died. When I heard this the first time, I was under the impression that the engine just died. It wasn't until recently that she informed me that "died" in her car language means "no power anywhere".

After a few attempts at trying to restart the car, the key stuck in the off position. The key could be removed from, and inserted into the ignition lock cylinder, but could not turn. This meant that I needed to get a new cylinder. This is usually a fairly simple task... simply put the key in, turn, press the release button located on the bottom of the lock and pull. However, in order for this to work, the key must turn.

The rest of the story is in the first post.
__________________________________________

The car, at this point, has power to the following:
Horn
Lights (Brake, Fog and Headlamps)
Locks
Radio has power to the clock
Hazards
Chime that tells driver the lights are on with no key inserted
I would check the dome light, but the car is lacking one.

So, it appears that the car has power everywhere it should WITHOUT a key. Meaning, I am under the impression that these items should function if you do not have a key in the ignition.

When the key is inserted in the ignition and turned, you should get the following:
Audio from the radio
Dash board illumination
Power window function
Power to engine functions (fuel pump, etc...)

But none of these things happen. It's like the key was never inserted at all. The problem may, in fact be with a computer as you have stated, but I am hoping than that. Regardless, the car is not recognizing that the key has been inserted.

Thank you so much for your help so far, I really do appreciate it. I will check those fuses and go get that manual. I will give you more of an update tonight.

O.K., Amoxaphobic,.
This additional information is very good. I have access to Mitchell’s Professional Mechanics soft ware and will see what I can sort out using data that I have available. It is unfortunate when something like this happens in that a computer controlled whatsits, automobile or can opener is superior in reliability and performance in many ways than the old days.
Except on those occasions when they do crap out it gets tricky and expensive quickly.
I’ll check back later today.

Just FYI, I have edited my previous post to add additional information on WHY I got the steering column. After reviewing the postage, I realized that it may have been a bit difficult to understand why I got a steering column rather than just replacing the ignition lock cylinder, or trying to find out why the car would not start in the first place.

After testing the fuse box, I got these numbers (all three fuses pulled):
Body Computer - Approx 11.67v
Body - 8.36v
Ignition - Dead. I am assuming this is dead now because I cannot get the car into start or run mode. Turning the key did not change anything on this matter.

Again, these are the numbers that I got with the fuses pulled, just checking at the contacts. However, the body fuse voltage dropped to 1.65v when the body computer fuse was inserted. Being the curious guy that I am, I was tempted to jumper across them, but I decided against it because I am not sure what the voltage should be.

I also checked the voltage in the fuse box under the hood. All are dead unless used (i.e. turning on the lights show voltage in the allocated spots). In addition, I checked the voltage on the dome light (or what should be a dome light) just out of curiosity - it has 12v.

I am on my way to the auto part store right now to get that manual.

Well, here is a direction to go, don't know where it will take you. If you purchased an adequate service manual there should be some electirical diagrams. Going with the list of things that do not appear to be working when the key is turned on many of your interior functions go through the IGN 1 fuse in the IP/console, as the book refers to it as behind the center of the dashboard. The IGN 1 fuse, a 10 amp fuse live when the key is in run and acc position supplies power to the Body Control Module. The body Control Module drives quite a bit of the other stuff too! So the initial guess would be if there is power at the Ign 1 Fuse and the fuse is good, power should be comming in and going out and the Body Control Module is probably a dead player.
But
If there is no power at the IGN 1 fuse than of course the Body Control Module is dead, there is not power to it, Well duh!
Power should be there when the key is turned on to either run or acc.
Power gets there from the Battery ===> Under Hood Fuse Block (UHFB) to the IGN 1/4 fuse, a 30 Amp fuse and then out a Red wire to the ===> Ignition switch where it gets switched out on a pink wire ===> to the Ignition 1 fuse on the console.
I don't know where this is going to go but at least is a starting point to check things out with.
From you explanation as to how things happened no real reason yet. Car wash = Water and water and electrical stuff never has been happy. But shifiting into gear meant moving something that could catch a wire and short something out. Or truth is just stranger than fiction.
It is easy to get mislead. I just last fall found a vibration that I have been chasing on one of my collector cars for more years than I would like to admidt too. Thought it was tire balance, nope, drive shaft out of balance. Who in blazes would expect that?
Later

Sorry for the delay on any response - had some family issues, then I was swamped at work. But never fear, I am still here to give you more mind mysteries.

I have checked all of the fuses and walked through the electrical system diagrams. Unless I am missing something, the car has power where it should. What it seems to be is the switch in ACC. The car does not recognize it no matter what I do. I have tried to jumper the ACC fuse in the IPFB to make it hot, and jumpered the IGN fuses in the UHFB just to eliminate the thought that it might be a bad fuse. Still nothing works.

I am wonder, would the anti-theft system do something to make this happen? It would make sense that if the car or computer got wet, that it would short and think it was being hi-jacked. It would also make sense on why its not working after changing the steering column.

.... of course, so would a bad computer.

Any more thoughts?

so what happened. I'm having this same problem
 

[QUOTE=Amoxaphobic;19563]Sorry for the delay on any response - had some family issues, then I was swamped at work. But never fear, I am still here to give you more mind mysteries.

I have checked all of the fuses and walked through the electrical system diagrams. Unless I am missing something, the car has power where it should. What it seems to be is the switch in ACC. The car does not recognize it no matter what I do. I have tried to jumper the ACC fuse in the IPFB to make it hot, and jumpered the IGN fuses in the UHFB just to eliminate the thought that it might be a bad fuse. Still nothing works.

I am wonder, would the anti-theft system do something to make this happen? It would make sense that if the car or computer got wet, that it would short and think it was being hi-jacked. It would also make sense on why its not working after changing the steering column.

.... of course, so would a bad computer.

Any more thoughts?[/QUOTE

11 year old open-ended post. How uncommon.
Please describe your problem in detail so that we do not make any assumptions about things being exactly the same that are not exactly the same. Please also concisely write up what you have already done for troubleshooting and how. This request is not because we don't think you know what you're doing, it is to cut down on troubleshooting time on everybody's part by not asking questions you've already tackled.

My first question would be have you attached a scanner with the capabilities to read body control module codes and other codes such as chassis and communications codes? I believe this will be key in determining what the car's computer thinks is working and what is not.

We are glad, well I am, to help you try to troubleshoot this provided you can supply as much information up front as possible about what happened, what you've done, and what works and what doesn't as of right now.

Many people, when faced with trying to seek help for something complicated do not realize the importance of seemingly unrelated behaviors or issues with the car. Please share them. There is nothing more frustrating for us then to get 85% of the information, then Sprint down the wrong path because of the missing 15%. No one does it on purpose but it can be consciously avoided to a great extent.

That being said, bring it on

21 years, derf? I count that as 11, but I'm an old, brain damaged hillbilly. What do I know? Anyway, to Amoxaphobic, I'd try replacing the ignition lock cylinder assembly.

Damn sharp, Rube.
Corrected.

I'm not quite sure what "I have the exact same problem" means so I did not make this suggestion.

And you're only as hillbilly as your brain damage tells you you are.

I'm gonna do some copy and pasting
 

UPDATE::: I have moved the car into the garage and it's still only 6 degrees in here.. I would now have to push it back outside where it's 0 degrees to light it on fire.. I cant afford to hit the pick and pull to try replacing the whole steering column so im looking at new ways to skin this cat.. This bitch ass ignition shall not defeat me.. Maybe

Thanks for the add. Tonight I may light my 97 SL1 on fire.. Changing the ignition lock cylinder.. It was locked up wouldn't turn to acc to release it. Got the key code had a new key made.. the old ones were about 25 years old little worn. Didnt work. Chisel and mallet didn't work. Drilled it out cleaned it up put new one in.. Nothing.. Got ahold of the little doohickie down in the housing and it just spun. popped off the gear shift release and got the doohickie out and its snapped. which im guessing what was the problem in the first place not the lock cylinder.. All that out I dremeled a make shift screw driver key. At least I could get it started. WRONG. the fan for the heater came on. no dash lights no turnsignals no chime.. No start.. Went thru all the fuses both inside and under the hood.. The chime was the only one blown. replaced that.. Got my ding ding ding. dash lights windshield wipers came on.. No start Not even a click.. Im on day 3 in this **** Missouri cold over something that should the 10 minutes and im gonna about to lose my **** crack a bottle and watch the bitch burn..https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sat...8a6348cd2.jpeg
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I would think the ignition SWITCH, not the cylinder, might be the issue. Passlock security did not visit the S series until 1999. Cars locked with the fob engaged a starter disable. If the alarm were somehow enabled, the horn should be honking and the lights flashing for about 2 minutes.

If the key is not turning, clearly there is a problem with cylinder not turning properly. The question is whether the cylinder is messed or the ignition switch from which the wires run to and from the battery, starter, etc, is bad, or both. Or if one went bad and took out the other along with it.

For as long as I have driven s cars, which is 1992, I have never had the joy of replacing an ignition. However, since there is no special transponder or passlock hall effect sensor BS, I'm assuming the innards of the ignition switch and its interface to the ignition cylinder is probably pretty simple, of course if that is what you are showing the broken part of. The ignition switch should be generic as far as combining it with any compatible ignition cylinder for nonpass lock ignitions, but if the contacts on the switch were damaged during the drill out or anything else, the new cylinder will not make correct contact necessarily with the ignition switch contacts. Therefore leading to seemingly dead almost everything on key turn.

Sounds like you have an automatic, and you pulled off this shifter console to find something broken. Was the gear shifter moving around too freely? I ask because if the vehicle thinks it is not in park or neutral, or if it actually is not in park or neutral, I believe all power to the ignition switch is cut to keep you from starting it in gear. I know that turning it to crank position certainly does nothing as that part of the circuit has been inhibited under said conditions. Don't remember what happens to accessory position in gear. I would think it remains on.

So I would make sure that the gear position sensor is correctly aligned with whatever it is monitoring to determine the gear position. It sounds like the plastic broken thing that you found in there may have been holding that in place. Now it's kind of moving around and therefore, the car is interpreting that it is likely in reverse or drive instead of Park or neutral.
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I assume you hear no sound of the fuel pump priming in the on position?

The dude above had a vehicle with passlock. Usually what happens with those is that the special magnetic sensor inside the lock switch gets misaligned or just literally stops working and does not properly recognize the key. The body control module therefore never sends a message to the PCM to enable the fuel injectors, etc.

None of that applies in your case.

It's the wiring in the car, the battery, the ignition switch, and more likely than not some insidious broken or poor ground. With so many things sharing the same power source I.e the battery and alternator, losing a ground on one circuit may have a bizarre effect on a connected yet unrelated circuit.

This is not meant to be an insulting question. How clean are your battery terminals, are your battery cables intact as in not crunchy if you cut the insulation back a few inches? Finally, do you have a solid corrosion free ground at the body, not the paint, on the other end of the neg battery cable?

How old is your battery?

Now that you have a rotating key, have you tried jump starting the vehicle?

Just because you are seeing 12 volts in various places does not mean the required current can be supplied if the wiring is highly corroded and therefore provides significant electrical resistance.

What is the battery voltage at rest? What does the voltage dip to when you turn the key to start? Does it change?

Worry not, I enjoy wild goose chases through S car wiring. There's always something new to be learned, like what the **** is wrong with your vehicle for example

I just recently cut the ends off the power and ground to the battery and to the grounds. wire brushed everything and hooked it up again. all the grounds. the illumination lights are on the radio is on. the parking lights are on.. no instruments. no gauges. but all the lights and functions that are on/working stay on until I pull the fuse or disconnect the battery..even now the whole steering column is out of the car all those wires are disconnected from the ignition it thinks the key is still in the on position. I am going to my local pick and pull in the morning and get the column with keys and everything in working order "hopefully". see what if that helps. I checked the swap pages to see what all would be compatible but I couldn't find ignition or steering column info.. Could you help me out on that part.. any thing else I might keep an eye out for while I'm trolling the car yard

Have you had the battery load tested, Zach? I'm sure that's one thing derf's asking. You can have a battery that shows 13 or 14 volts and still had a crap battery. It's not the voltage there that's important, it's the CCA. If your battery has a dead cell or two, as soon as you try to start the car and put a load on it, there's not enough juice to spin the starter. If you put a volt meter on the battery and try to engage the starter, what is the voltage reading? If it falls much below 12, you might want to try booster cables or a new battery.

. I actually do not have a volt meter. The other night just got giggles and ****s I slow charged it till it was 100 just because I've toyed around with it alot the past month and havent been able to drive it and let the alternator charge it.. I talked to my pick and pull here yesterday and told them I'd be here first thing this morning and the s.o.b closed for inclement weather. I just drove 40 miles

12345
. I got back home and hooked the battery back up and all the lights that has previously been on thru this whole ordeal that weren't supposed to be on and wouldn't shut off are now all off..

I don't believe you answered a single question I asked. I understand you don't have a voltmeter. Get one at harbor freight for less than $10. I doubt you'll fix this without one.

You have no idea about the condition of your battery. Step one of any diagnosis of a computer-controlled vehicle is starting with a known good power source I.e battery. Trying to interpret what the hell is going on when you have no idea whether the car's computer is receiving enough current at the right voltage to operate correctly is wasting time because everything rolls downhill. You can't start a car with a bad battery.

You also didn't answer the jump start question, which is another way of finding out whether your battery is crap. Not sure if you have not tried or wouldn't try now that it's been mentioned. Gives us huge clue as to the state of your battery and the state of your battery cables plus ground.

We have to tackle this one piece at a time. If you don't answer the questions we are posing at step one, we can't move to step two. As far as what is happening right now with the lights and the car thinking it is in the on position, do you know why that is? Neither do I, it doesn't matter in all likelihood, and it is likely useless information if nothing is getting sufficient current to operate properly.

I'm not trying to be a dick. I'm trying to help you. I told you I am up for the goose chase. You came to the forum for assistance. Please try the things we suggest and report back as to your findings. If you don't help us help you by doing so, then we literally cannot help you .

Putting in another steering column into a vehicle that is misbehaving because of a potentially bad battery solves nothing, addresses nothing, and wastes money.

Disconnect your battery, take it to AutoZone or similar, and ask them to load test it per Rube's suggestion. Until you do that, you are likely wasting everyone's time including your own. The test is free.