I’m helping a friend who has a 96 Saturn SC2 with the 1.9L DOHC engine. The car has had an oil consumption problem for a while that has been getting progressively worse with time. Finally, the car started smoking really bad, and it is blue oil smoke. After searching many posts on this forum, I’ve arrived at the conclusion that I suspected – it’s probably the piston rings.

Since he just uses this as a commuter car to run back and forth to work and get good fuel mileage, I’m trying to think of the least expensive way to repair the car, if it is even worth fixing. It is currently not driveable as is. It runs well, but smokes so bad that it cannot be driven. Has anyone tried changing the piston rings with the engine still in the car? I know this is not the correct way to fix the problem, but if it’s possible, it would be an inexpensive way to keep the car running a few more years. I’ve heard of this being done in old straight-six cars years ago. I figured if I could take the cylinder head and oil pan off, I could get the rods and pistons out, hone the cylinders, reinstall the pistons with new rings, rebuild the head (new valve guides and seals to prevent smoking once new rings are installed), and put it all back together. I figure I could probably do this for $300 - $400 and keep it running for a little while longer. Has anyone ever tried this?

 

Why not pull the engine ?

 

My thoughts are with SW2 -- why not pull the engine? Are you that cramped for working space that there's no place to put it ???

 

Ya like this is not an old straight six rear wheel drive car like years ago.

 

First of all the standard question is why not pull the engine. I am sure there are reasons. And this is not the old straight 6, of which the same question can be asked. And frankly getting the head off of this this is a whole bunch harder.
But your question was can it be done.
Well, yuh, it can be. Pulling the head is a set of instructions here on this forum as in the Mitchels or Chiltons service books.
The next problem is pulling the pan which I am not sure really is a problem. The next problem after that is getting the pistons out with out damaging anything and the biggest problem there is that there is a wear ring at the top of the cylinder bore that might give you some grief.
Why? Getting the pistons out might not be a big problem but that wear is associated with wear taking place on the compression ring too. So if you do not deal with that wear ring and get the top of the cylinder bore as smooth as you possibly can
the first time the piston comes up with the new rings on it will be a bit like running into a wall. And all that work is shot. How smooth. I have seen people rent a ridge reamer the tool to eliminate it and through ignorance really screw up the engine. If you have never used one just be careful, you can destroy the engine faster than I can type it out.
The odds of getting away with this make shift repair, fair to good. Hones are better than they used to be and I will bet ridge reamers are too. There is probably a lot of wear that will not be fixed here so there is a finite time interval that you can drive it before the problem comes back.
Use a good grade dinosaur oil and some where around a 10 W 30 or 10 W 40 and it should last a fair amount of time. I would run a compression test before I took it apart and as long as there was some compression the valves are probably o.k., and in that case I personally would not waste my money doing anything with them. If the compression is some where near zero, that cylinder probably has a bad valve.
The test?
Run compression test, record number, squirt oil in the spark plug hole and number gets bigger, rings are worn. Number does not change valves are bad. I personally would use that to decide to to valves or not.
Remember you said budget, not me.
Want to do something better? Read the sticky on changing engines and go to wrecking and use rebuild money to buy a new engine.
Mine has about 120000 miles on it and does not burn a drop. I plan on keeping it that way for a long long time while I continue to rack up the miles.

 

I'd try running some Seafoam through the engine to clean it up some and go to a 10W-40 weight oil change, like Uncljohn suggested. A ridge reamer is something you'd have to use and if you don't know what you're doing with one, he pointed out you can really eff up the cylinder. It's your buddy's car, and only the two of you can decide what's best, is the bottom line. Just remember to remove the crankshaft is you undertake this endeavor. You don't want a lot of dirt and crap getting on it while you're doing any honing of they cylinders or reaming. I'd also recommend if you do this, you replace the main bearings and rod bearings while you're at it.

 

Welcome to the Saturn Forum.

x2on the seafoam and heavy oil. And on the compression test. How many miles on the engine? I think I would just go for another engine before I tried to do all that work to rebuild it in the car. I have almost 180k on mine and don't use too much oil.

 

I was just trying to avoid doing an engine swap. I know the cost is probably similar to buy a used engine, but I was hesitant to put a used engine in considering how many people have ring problems. I thought it might just be faster and cheaper to hone the cylinders and put rings in with the block still in the car.

As far as Seafoam goes....I guess its worth a shot, but I think it's well past anything Seafoam can help. It was using a quart every few hundred miles, and then suddenly started smoking REALLY bad. The engine runs fine, but it smokes so bad I wouldn't even try driving it.

We may still just put a used engine in it...I'm not sure. I think I'll try the Seafoam and do a compression test and try to decide what to do.

 

As a Saturn owner, a long time owner of the same Saturn, a back yard mechanic of some skill and one who has rebuilt a number of engines successfully, the concept of using a ridge reamer successfully scares the hell out of me. I have never used is successfully and while I know it has it just seems to me that if you have never rebuilt an engine before the concept of using one and getting away with using it are minimal at best. What you are proposing has merit. To in essence throw a set of rings at it to see if you can get away with that. It is an awful lot of work for the gamble of a questionable goal that of having a good running engine for a while with a minimum work load. You are doing the work and it is a hobby so part of the success of the project is to keep off the streets and out of bars as I say to people or have people said of me.
I am a great fan of doing things because I can not because I have to or that some one else tells me I can't do. I don't do that.
I am a great believer of if it ain't broke don't fix it and another one. It blows my mind of the number of Saturns our there that burn oil. I was a member of this forum a long time ago and when I more or less parked mine for a few years I also dropped participating in the forum. At that time excessive oil consumption was not a popular subject. The big thing there was the bloody temperature sensor problems. The factory had put the wrong senser in from the get go on the S cars and some where around 2000 was the first service bulletin on it. That said in essence it was the wrong one and because of that the guage would read wrong and there might be drivability problems. Of course by that time the aftermarket had flooded the market place with replacement units that were based on the wrong part so going to the parts store did not fix the problem. It just added to it. And no one knows when or if the aftermarket actually fixed their problem or not. Because looking at them made no difference and for the most part, a lot of cars ran a long time with causing the owner to be concerned about it.
I bought one for mine a long time ago not because buying one fixed the problem but because it was overheating and the magic cure was because the sensor was bad. It was, but it did not fix anything, just gave a better gauge reading of what was going on. I finally found the real problem and fixed that and no more over heating and the gauge did indeed work better. The engine never did run bad or give a problem and still doesn't including burning oil.
I have about 110,000 miles on mine now, the odometer quit working at about 99,000 miles and although now I have a new one, I have not installed it yet. My Bad! I also had not put 3000 miles on it over almost 4 years which translated into not changing or checking the oil either. Also my bad. But my point is my neglecting things and I did, there was no reason to check the oil. It does not use any.
And as far as I am concerned the reason it does not is when I bought it the factory recommendation of the 5 w 20 oil I felt was BS and made not with engine reliability in mind but the supposed benefit in fuel economy. And if there is any I doubt the average driver has any clue that there is. I was in charge of a fleet a number of years back of mixed new cars of of the time. In the late 80's or so just before the Saturn came out and lived in Norther California and my drivers were complaining thier cars were running hot and giving them problems and I was still following the recommended guidelines that were existing everywhere and had been for ever that said light weight oil for winter temperatures and heavy weight for the summer temperatures no matter what the manufacture said and for temperatures there a 20W50 oil would fit the circumstances and that is what I was using in all my cars at the time. A new Car and my own drivers (2) and my street racer and having no problems at all. I forced my drivers to do the same and listened to the "The dealer says use this" arguments to which I replied do what I say or walk. I won.
And the fleet stopped running hot and giving problems. Unscientific at best but what happened I expected to see and I did.
Fast forward to now and the subject now is Saturns are burning oil and frankly I expect them to using a steady diet of a winter grade oil year around and here in the the heat.
And they are not the only ones. Just the only ones we here of on a Saturn forum.
My experience with them is they are reliable and easy to repair so this is catching me a bit by surprise. Up to a point. so moving on to your concerns.
As long as you are willing to put up with the work required to put a new set of rings in your buddies car I do not see a problem with doing so. I would not worry about fixing something that ain't broken in that you are not doing this to fix other problems. And if you start doing that you frankly should have considered doing a transplant. A junk yard that sells a used engine pretty much will only gaurentee that it ran with out making expensive noises and did not smoke when they started it and that it did start and will give you something like 30 days to determine it doesn't. Which is usually long enough to get it in and drive it.
I do not think you have to be overly concerned about what you are doing. Keeping a rag wrapped around the crank journals will keep most of the crud from gathering on them. Wipe them down good before putting things back together should insure cleanliness. Not perfect but o.k. Getting the pistons out is best done using some kind of a block of wood between the hammer and what ever you are hitting will keep the hammer from damaging anything metal. The pistons are probably going to carboned up really bad due to running a light oil through out their life and running hot and this will cause the rings to stick on the pistons making it difficult to remove rings from the pistons. This is why you are using oil, the surface of the rings are worn and they no longer move on the pistons thus when worn, no longer function very well and no longer expand and do their job. Just putting new ones on and not re-boring the cylinder and buying new pistons to match the new size of the cylinder can be considered a waste of time by many.
But you are not looking for "Like new" performance and you probably will not get that either . But you might get o.k. as a result and O.K. works. But if you fxxx up the top of the cylinder using a ridge reamer you can kiss it all off.
I would rent a hone after the pistons are out and a good electric drill to drive the thing and see what you can do with it. It probably will not make the ridge go away and I don't know how much you will see of it but if it softens the ridge edges enough so it does not act as a fence to the new piston rings I think it is a good gamble.I would also take some 220 wet dry paper and sand the hell out of the ridge wet with a light oil such as WD40 or some 5W20 so the bottom side of it as seen by the piston has at best a soft ridge rather than something with a sharp edge because going up and down with new piston rings will not like the size of the ridge. it will break rings unless you can soften things up a bit.
I also use an about 50/50 ratio of motor oil and stp to put engines together with. partially fill a coffee can with the stuff and dunk a piston fully in it, plus pore it on the crank. I put the piston in sloppy wet with oil using a piston spring compressor and some rubber tubing on the bolts to keep them from dinging the crank shaft. Look at the bearing on the pistons when out, if they do not show base metal from wear, don't worry about re-using them. They are not worn out completely. Just don't loose track of which piston is which and they have a direction so figure out which direction is front, front of engine not front of car. Follow camshaft syinking directions and if it runs and does not smoke yet you won. And you have constructively amused yourself. And use a 10W30 oil at least. In the 100+ degree heat I am having here, 20w50 is a recommendation.
Good luck, have fun and if it doesn't work you tried. But by not repairing what does not need repairing you have not wasted money if you have to do a transplant. Besides you may have learned something.

 

Update: We were able to stop the car from smoking without taking the engine apart. I read many of the posts on this forum dealing with oil consumption and smoking (thank you to all who contributed). It seemed some people had luck reducing oil consumption and smoking by taking out the spark plugs and soaking the cylinders with Marvel Mystery Oil or Seafoam, and speculated that the piston rings were stuck due to a buildup of carbon or other gunk.

My parents used to own a marina, and I remember my father using some gunk to free up stuck rings and rusty cylinders in old outboard engines that had been sitting in barns for a long time. I called and asked if he still had any, and he did. It is called "OMC Engine Tuner". I pulled the spark plugs and put 1/4 can in each cylinder and let it soak for 24 hours.

Next, I cranked the engine with the plugs out to blow out whatever was left over on top of the pistons. Then i installed the spark plugs and tried to start. However, the Engine Tuner must've "washed" the cylinders - it spun fast with no compression. So I pulled the plugs back out, and squirted some engine oil in the cylinders, cranked with the plugs out to lubricate the cylinders, then reinstalled the plugs.

Obviously, when I tried to start, it sputtered, and the oil soaked the plugs. So I had to take them out, clean them off, reinstall, and try again. I did this three times before it finally started. Once the car did start, it smoked horribly....worse than I ever saw anything smoke in my life. But that was expected, as I put all kinds of crap in the cylinders, and I"m sure it was loaded up in the muffler by then and had to burn off.

Once it was running smooth (and still smoking horribly), I took it for a hard drive up a windy mountain road. I noticed the smoke getting less and less, and by the time I got to the top of the mountain.....no smoke! The car now does not smoke at all. I was ready to tear the engine apart a week ago. We drove it all day, and the smoking condition did not come back. How long will it last? Who knows. Maybe a day, maybe a month, maybe five years. But for now, it's running again. Next weekend we will change the spark plugs and the oil. I'm sure a lot of that gunk was washed into the oil, and the spark plugs went through hell while I was trying to fire the engine.

To try to eliminate the buildup of carbon and gunk moving forward, I am putting "OMC Carbon Guard" in the gasoline as an additive. It is another boat product from the old marina. The instructions say to put one ounce per eight gallons in the fuel. This is for maintenance to try to eliminate additional carbon build up.

So I will keep everyone updated on how well this holds up. Is this the right way to fix the car? Probably not. But with 200k miles on a 17 year old car, if it holds up for another year or two, it's good enough. The car runs great and doesn't seem down on power at all, hopefully this will decrease the oil consumption as well. Once I determine how much oil it is using now, I will post another update.