This site is driving me crazy. What state do you live in?

 

So because I replaced the ignition switch and the car started without a passlock reprogram that means something is wrong? I replaced the ignition switch (just the electrical switch on the back of the lock cylinder) but i still use my original keys. I figured the switch just controlled the on/run/start functions to the ignition.

i’ll drive the car tomorrow and take a look to see if I can see what’s going on with the airbag light when the car stalls. But, the only original part I put back in after it didn’t make a difference was the ECM for the engine. After I replaced it with one from the junkyard, the car wouldn’t start, because I didn’t do the relearn process. I didn’t know that I could even do it from within the car and without GM tech II computers. I was hoping it wasn’t a coded item.

I pulled the bcm tonight and opened it up to see if there were any bad solder connections, but everything looked okay, except it was covered in. A yellow resin.

I live in Ypsilanti Michigan.

 

Sorry, not trying to be confusing although I am not succeeding at that.

I did not realize that the situation you explained involved changing the ECM back at the same time. That would have triggered a passlock reset because the BCM and PCM needed to resync.
As a side note, that functionality obviously is intact in the BCM because your passlock reset was successful.

I did not for whatever reason think about the fact that you swapped ignition switches but put the original cylinder in in the alternate ignition switch. I will have to consult/lookup where the freaking sensor is in the ignition setup. 99% certain it is within that switch.

I think the dashboard light test when it stalls will be the ultimate damnation of the BCM. Even without that result, you've tried two different ignition switches plus an ACM although the ECM may not have been quite right for the vehicle. The point is yours still ran the car when you put it back in.

I think I forgot to answer your question about where the relearn procedure is. Just do the 30-minute one. It usually works. Otherwise you do the 10-minute one and it fails and then you have to do 30 minutes more and then your battery goes dead.


Also, please count the number of security light flashes at key on engine off so we have a reference. Iveco remember someone else having a bizarre security light that would flash four times when it had an issue. I don't think we ever figured out what four flashes meant but it ended up being a BCMSU or shall I say one that was cured by replacing the BCM.

If you do get a BCM or go looking for one, see if you can get one that is as close to your vehicles configuration and options as possible. There is no guarantee that a junkyard BCM is functional, as many Saturns went to the junkyard compliments of passlock effing up the BCM.

I spent a little bit of time in Ypsi as an undergrad at UM Ann arbor back in the late '80s. Back in those days, smoking a joint in public was a $5 fine.

I think you guys are ground 0 in terms of nastiness of the Corona virus for your state. I know you are not right next to Detroit but Michigan looks pretty nasty on the maps for Corona.

Unless I cannot come and visit the car and make things worse. I can only spew incorrect ideas onto the forum in the hopes at this point that I trip over the answer with your assistance.
In all seriousness, sounds like replacement BCM time. If you can get one to start the car and run the car and not stall, if it's not a perfect match, hopefully you can live with it.. you can look up what BCM is supposed to be in there even though that exact part may not be available in fact I know it's not available. Go to GM parts direct dot co that is correct no m on the end. They show part numbers for most of the discontinued parts. You can also use your VIN to talk to a GM dealership and have them look it up which is easier but you don't get to learn where everything is on a Saturn parts site.

Clear ly I need sleep.

 

Clearly.

 

Clearly.

Clearly I dreamt Andy came to your house, removed the BCM in 5 min, put a JY close-enough in there, plugged it in, handed you the relearn procedure.
All just his Uber arrived.

Or was it a Lyft?.

 

I just saw the comment about Andy coming over and putting in BCM only after writing my small novel. I am totally down with him doing that and I'll cover his uber. But I am going to grab a BCM and cross my fingets for $32. Then if it works I'll order a refurb, so i can retain some key remotes since I'll loose those.

But as for my unedited post:
okay, I feel like there is confusion on what i have done and what the outcome has been

First:
I bought the car with a broken timing belt and replaced the cylinder heads ans gaskets from a donor car. once I got the car running, but it would stall on me while driving.

1st - The first thing I did was scan the car and came up with the P2176 and after a relearn wouldn't get rid of the code, i put in a used throttle body. The car has now no longer set the code for that and appears to have corrected the initial issue, except for the stalling.

2nd - Then went through, checked all the wiring in the engine bay and replaced the ignition switch on the back of the ignition housing. I DID NOT replace the ignition itself so i retained the same lock cylinder with the original keys. The car fired back up immediately without issue after this, I didn''t have to do a relearn and left that part on the car.

3rd - I replaced the ECU from the same donor car i got the heads from (BTW the car are the junk yard was put there because of a rusted rear sub-frame that broke at the upper control arm mount) but the car would NOT start after this. I DID NOT do the relearn procedure, because I figured it was a "dealer only" operation. So I REINSTALLED the original ECU and the car fired right back up. Then I found a vacuum leak from the purge valve to the underside of the throttle and repaired that, which I believe also helped the P2176.

4th - I rented a fuel pressure tester and made sure i had adequate fuel pressure. The car holds 55 PSI and a minimum of 50 PSI, so no trouble there.

5th - I pulled the BCM last night opened it and checked for bad soldering joints. There were non from what I could tell, so I reinstalled the BCM and have NOT gone to get a replacement one.

Finally this is where I am: The car starts and runs just fine till it stalls.

The issues I have:

The horn stays on constantly if you put the fuse in (fault stored for BCM ground fault)
The car recongnizes the missing curlicue antenna on the glass (has antenna base and OnStar, but the metal antenna is gone)
It has a fault for the communication from the steering module (Steering is choppy when cold and there is play, but the power steering works)
The seatbelt light stays on at times even when you have the seatbelt on
The ABS light is on (i believe this is related to the steering module due to the C0000 code)

So i know that was a lot there, but i have not had to to a relearn since I never left the orignal ECU in the car. When i go outside to do one now (just to see what happens) the security light turns off with in five seconds of turning the key to the "ON" position.

When the car stalls:

I have had it stall when sitting in park in the driveway, putting it on car ramps, turning left or right when accelerating, going down the highway, and taking off from a light. SO pretty much whenever it feels like it. LOL

From what I have seen the security light only flashes after is stalls which is anywhere from 5 times if it requires me to restart with the key or about three if fires back up because I'm moving fast enough the torque converter start the engine I'm assuming.

Derf:

I definitely wouldn't want you to come to my area, because we are 3rd on the hot spot areas in the US for COVID-19. I have lived in the Ann Arbor area since 1999 and I know as long as you were on the Diag in downtown you could only get a $5-20 fine for possession. Now of course it is legal and i have a grow house across the street from me. LOL if this stuff ever blows over and your in the area I would like to meet up and at least say "hi". Hopefully we can discuss what will eventually solve this pain the *** car. :-)

But there is the long and short of it as far as what I have done and where I'm at. I have only really replaced two items related to the engine, which are the throttle body and the ignition switch.

I think my next step is to find a compatible BCM which mine is an "A" so I can replace it with an A or a C from what I have been able to determine. Mileage isn't a concern, since this VUE has 163,000 on it and it's third car/kid car, I am just looking for reliability and functionality.

As always, we will hopefully figure this out and I truly appreciate the continued help, even if they are "shots in the dark"

Jordan

 

Dude,

You never mentioned the stored BCM ground fault or the seat belt light issue.

2 more stikes against the BCM. The ground fault is major. Any time you lose a ground anywhere, current takes the path of least resistance.

With a module like the BCM, it probably has between 5 to 15 different grounds or more. Some are shared between outputs, some are not. Without a schematic of the BCM you don't really know what you've lost but in general it's probably not worth figuring out when having these types of problems.

Please be sure to call a GM dealer with your VIN and find out which version of the BCM should be in the car as opposed to what is there since it may not be the original. Beggars cannot be choosers but they can find needles in the haystack.

I must say, if this is the BCM, it is the first I've ever seen fail this way on this forum. Doesn't mean it can't happen, just haven't seen it.

Please keep us updated.

 

I'd take a closer look at that replacement throttle body. That's what it sounds like to me. I'm guessing you took it apart and gave it a thorough cleaning before installation, right? This sounds more like a fuel delivery issue to me, but I'm NOT a mechanic.

 

Oh yeah, before I put the throttlebody on, I gave it a thorough cleaning and put on a brand new gasket. All the mating surfaces are clean and it runs like a champ until it stalls. The new throttlebody also took care of it finishing up the learn process which the other one continue to repeat over and over.

I just left the junkyard and grabbed it to body control module’s. One from a 2002 V6 and the other from a 2004 four-cylinder. Both are “A” modules and look as though the one in the 2002 had been replaced at some point. I’ll put the one from the 2002 in first and do the 30 minute pairing process.

I can at least then see if the car runs properly after that. Then possibly buy a refurbished unit that would have key fobs since I lose theor functionality. The other thought I have is I could install an unused remote start kit that I have in the garage. That would give me two remotes and remote start! But one step at a time. LOL

There are definitely some differences on the inside hardware wise. I’m curious if one is updated?

The top one in both pictures is the one out of the 2004

 

Well after an afternoon of tinkering I have solved a few things and others are still there. I installed the BCM from the 2002 saturn surprisingly it has 160K when mine had 163K, so that's a plus. But I have tried the passlock procedure and i have not been successful. I have read conflicting pieces of information about the proper way to go about it, so I am confused. I plugged in the module and turned the key to the "on" position. The security light flashes and then stays on, but doesn't turn off after 10 minutes. I tried many times without luck and then stumbled across information that I am supposed to bump the start position, then let it sit for 10 minutes. So i'll try again tomorrow, but i thought maybe someone would have a way to go about it one way or the other.

Good news is the horn works and the ABS light is off..... so i have that going for me..... which is nice!
:-)