My lw300 stumbled on acceleration, I disconnected the egr valve and the car ran perfect. Check engine light for no egr flow but it ran properly. I did not have any l300 parts cars and I did not want to buy a valve. Of course I have two l300 parts cars now that I run L200s. I think my problem was that the car was a little lean and the egr was too aggressive.
When they die at idle it may be iac issues. The computer controls the throttle plate for all iac functions on this car there is no “iac”valve. So I need to know does it stall like it is idling too slow and you turn the steering wheel and it dies or the a/c compressor kicks on and it dies. Or does it just shut off like you turned off the key. There is a pressure switch on the power steering to raise the idle. The ecm knows when the a/c command is sent and increases the idle as it engages the compressor.

 

So the c 0 0 0 0 code he pulled may be real and indicate an issue with the power steering control, possibly including the pressure switch you mentioned?

 

Sorry I thought it was an L series with hydraulic power steering. Electric power steering has it’s own set of issues. An intermittent open in a abs sensor harness can turn on several warning lights. On my 2003 Olds Alero an intermittent open in the right front abs harness that opened when turning left. This would turn on the check engine light, the traction control light and the abs light. I was able to replace a section of the harness and solve the issue.

 

I found a quite interesting that a c0000 may in fact be expected to turn on the ABS light as opposed to anything else, like the service light. I know it would not turn on the SES. Unless it is truly disabling the ABS system because the ABS module is not receiving valid information requested from the power steering control module.

So Andy, in your case, you never actually got a front sensor error code, just an ABS light?

 

Right now it is sitting perfectly at about 650 RPM there’s no fluctuations expect for if I have the a/c on, the. It adjusts accordingly. But I went on a longer drive today and it died on the highway three times, the security light flashes about two or three times and then it starts going again. Also the service engine soon light and the car with a wrench light come on. Then it did it when I was getting off the highway while turning left. But that time I had to go to the shoulder and restart the car I don’t hold strong. Right now it is sitting perfectly at about 650 RPM. But I went on a longer drive today and it dies on the highway, the security light flashes about two or three times and then it starts going again. Then it did it when I was getting off the highway while turning left. But that time I had to go to the shoulder and restart the car. if that light is flashing, I’m assuming that I either have a bad wire somewhere around the BCM or I need a new one?

 

Pardon me but I cannot see your post right now. Is this only when you are turning left? You do have a power steering control system code. Not saying the two are related but at this point anything is possible. The fact that you can restart it immediately probably but not definitely rules out a CKP issue.

If it repeatedly stalls when turning left I would begin to suspect some strange interaction with the power steering module though I've never heard of this on a Saturn. Does the car literally stall as in all the dash lights come on and you have to turn the key to crank for it to start again or is it that the RPMs start to drop and it stumbles but the engine technically is still firing? This is a critical distinction to make. Please advise.

 

The car does not repeatedly stall only when I turn left. I have driven it for a period of 30 to 45 minutes without any issues. But sometimes it stalls going straight sometimes or turning left or turning right. It is always when you’re trying to accelerate or go a constant speed. It is pretty much as if the key was turned into the run position but not starting the engine. It just dies, but all the light come on the dash and the security light blinks. Sometimes if you’re going fast enough it will fire back up, other times you have to pull to the side of the road or put it into neutral and start the engine back up. I tried unplugging the steering wheel control module and driving without any power steering to see if it would make any difference, but the car still stalled. The part that really frustrates me is that I have no codes that are being set aside from the C0000 for the steering and one for the horn in the BCM. The fuse is pulled on the horn because it will go off constantly if you put it back in, but I assumed it was a bad horn switch. I bought a new airbag and steering wheel to install due to material wear, but haven’t installed it yet. I’m including a screenshot of my OBDLINK MX+


I went out and just scanned the car about five minutes ago and the C0000 is gone, but there were two codes, one for the horn that is usually there and one for the cellular antenna that is missing, but those are the only faults. After doing some research, I realize that the horn is a fault inside the BCM more than likely, which makes me wonder if everything stems back to a BCM issue.

I was just looking online at the repair manual I have access to and noticed a wiring diagram that shows the passlock key system and how it directly links to the BCM. This makes me wonder if there isn't an issue with that sensor that is part of the ignition housing? It would make some sense if that was causing the car to shut down as thought it has the wrong key and then start back up. When in installed the other ECU and tried starting the car i was getting good fuel pressure, but the care must shut off the injectors. So again i am back to a possible BCM issue or maybe something with the security system itself.

i will try to check our the wiring for the BCM tomorrow, but I would appreciate if anyone had any places in particular to look. Mechanics are my strong suit WAY more than the electrical end of things.

 

Okay either the system ate my reply or I replied in a dream last night. Either way here goes round two.

Is the car going into a stall before the security light starts flashing or is it flashing after the car has stalled? The reason I ask is because I believe it is supposed to flash a few times at startup. It is not supposed to stay on when you crank the car. I think the flashes are part of a self test though I do not know where to look that up.

Originally I assumed that when the security light started to blink it was indicating the security system had activated and was cutting the fuel, thus stalling the car. This is actually possible because of the design of the security system which checks that sensor in the lock cylinder over and over and over and over as you drive. It is a continuous check. Therefore if for whatever reason the system gets perturbed, the ignition cylinder sensor NBCM get out of sync, the ECM will cut fuel. We have had posters who have had what I just described happen.

If, however, the car has already stalled and all the dash lights come on, they would do that when the car stalled but they also do that at first key turn as a self test. The question is does the security light do that as well. If it does, you may get the equivalent of a first key turn self check in the middle of driving which is obviously not right. As you mentioned, if you are going fast enough and in the correct gear so to speak, because the key is in the on position the transmission turns the engine over because it is still in drive and the car will restart itself. If not, you must pull over as you indicated.

To me that is either at ignition issue and possibly therefore the ignition switch and a wiring issue in there possibly, or it is just the BCM asking to be removed and trashed.

Given the other BCM related silliness going on with the horn and now missing an antenna which I'm assuming was never there and not actually an option on your car, I'm wondering if the BCM has already been replaced with one that is not programmed specifically for your vehicle. Meaning if The vehicle originally came with out a cellular antenna but the BCM original went bad, somebody has replaced it possibly with a BCM and not had it reflashed to match your VIN and options. That in and of itself does not mean it won't run the car, I think Andy has mentioned that you can take the BCM out of an L-Series car and it will continue to run. But it seems as though things are crossed up.

I'm thinking the most obvious place for this issue is the ignition switch at this point. When the cylind er where is enough, the key does not sit in exactly the right spot to be sensed by the sensor in the switch that is part of passlock. Therefore you can have an intermittent passlock connection where the security works sometimes and other times doesn't work. Do you have a bunch of keys on your key ring? If so take them off and just put the Saturn key in by itself.

Unless the power steering module is intermittently not getting a speed signal from somewhere or not processing it if it is getting one if it even requires one although I think it would because it needs to know how fast the vehicle is going in order to determine how much power assist to apply, I think it is likely the ignition switch and likely the BCM.

try the 10 minute past lock reset once you put the new ignition switch in. Also is it new or junkyard?

 

Thanks for taking the time to rewrite or write a reply for the first time.... LOL

To answer your questions in order, the car stalls then the security light flashes, I believe even when I am restarting the car it is still flashing.

The thought of the passlock loosing communication with the BCM and then cutting out makes total sense. Is the passlock sensor in the ignition switch? I DID replace the ignition switch from another VUE at the U-pull yard. I DID NOT however do a passlock relearn, I wasn't aware that i needed to perform that procedure after installing a non-module part. The car is doing the same exact thing with the replacement ignition switch as it did with the original one. I have tied jiggling the key while going down the road and it doesn't effect anything, so I am thinking that the switch isn't the issue. I also only have one key and remote on each key ring. Where is the passlock sensor located, I couldn't seem find any information on it.

That also gets me to the other point that the BCM may have already been replaced, but the car does have the mount for the cellular antenna along with the Onstar mirror. The little curlicue antenna is the only part missing. I also have to functioning keys and remotes to the car, so i don't think it is a swapped unit. I am thinking that it is more and more a BCM issue with the horn code, shutting down, and I noticed the radio doesn't get loud (but maybe that is just the head unit).

What is the procedure for the 10 minute relearn? I know the 30 minute one for the ECU (only after I swapped back in the original when the car wouldn't start). But I think that would be worth doing before exploring a replacement BCM. i did find on the web a guy that broke down the codes on the BCM and which units they can directly replace. So I might go get one form the U-pull just to see if it remedies the driving issue. Then i guess I would have to take it to the dealer or get a re-manufactured one.

But thanks for keeping on the tail to solving this issue, i really appreciate all the information and hope to tell you we've solved it at some point down the road.

Jordan

 

If you were able to put in a different ignition, not do a passlock reset, then start the car, there is something very wrong. Especially when you put the original ignition back in and had to do the passlock reset. If that worked properly and the security laid behave the way it should according to the procedure,, I am now slightly more confused.

I suppose it is possible that you had blind luck and got an ignition switch with a key and pass lock ignition switch sensor that happened to exactly match the BCM in the vehicle. That would be consistent with the BCM being different than the one that matches the keys to the car, as you needed to do a relearn to put the original ignition switch back into the car. The two are obviously not the same with respect to passlock sensor and key.

If The car is stalling before the pass lock light comes on and blinks, then it is not likely that the pass lock system is cutting the fuel. If you believe the light, pass lock is not engaging.

It sounds more like the BCM is rebooting so to speak back to initial key on routine which involves apparently disconnecting a connection from the ignition switch to the BCM that is required to keep the car running. When I say disconnecting a connection, the more I think about it it is probably internal to the BCM. If it was external, the outcome would probably be somewhat random. Your situation seems to be the identical behavior every time.

To mostly verify this, without crashing, when it stalls, look at all the lit up lights on the dash. I believe it is the airbag light that flashes seven times at key on. Watch the airbag light. If it does not come on it is not reverting to key on behavior. If it flashes seven times then it is reverting to key on behavior.

Hell don't do it while you're driving installed in the driveway. you can see what key on behavior looks like by going from off to on, then stalling it and watching to see if what you see is identical or not. To be honest I don't know 100% that the two are different but I will probably go out and look at my s car. I don't want to waste your time or gas so let me go check what the average car does in terms of lights that come on when you stall. I have a stick so I will intentionally stall it and watch the dash. This will likely be after dinner tonight.

Can't remember is your car a stick or automatic? The car should not be able to restart itself in drive as far as I know. I think there was an interlock switch tied to the ignition that prevents this from happening. So it should not restart itself on the highway unless the interlock has been tampered with or it is controlled by the BCM everyone's best friend and it is not working properly but if that was the case you should get a code for it