Help! Can't get my catalyst monitor ready.

  #1  
Old 04-26-2015, 04:22 PM
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Default Help! Can't get my catalyst monitor ready.

Hi all,
Signed up just to see if I could get some help with this issue. I'm a recent proud owner of a 2005 Saturn vue (2.2l, manual, fwd). I've been battling with Ohio emissions inspection for the past month or so. About 3 weeks ago, I failed one Echeck with a code that indicated a temperature problem. I was already suspicious that my thermostat was bad, so I replaced it, and light went off on its own. When I took it back to run the Echeck again, they wont run it, since my car isn't ready. I've bought a reader since then, and can see that only one monitor is still incomplete, and that's the catalyst monitor. I've talked to two mechanics, both of which say that they wont be able to do much other than tell me to drive it more. Problem is, I've been driving it a TON. In the past couple weeks, I've put about 300 miles on it specifically just trying to get the CAT monitor ready.

I've been following the steps here: General Motors Driving Cycle

Step 7 says:
Hold Steady Speed. Hold a steady speed of 88km/hr (55mph) for five minutes. During this time, in addition to the diagnostics performed in step 4, the catalyst monitor diagnostics will be performed. If the catalyst is marginal or the battery has been disconnected, it may take 5 complete driving cycles to determine the state of the catalyst.

I've done this, along with several variations of this (higher speed, lower speed, more time, etc), about 6-7 times, with cold starts inbetween. Still cant get this stupid monitor to complete. My temp tags run out on Friday, and I'm on the last set I can get in Ohio. Anyone have an idea as to what might help
 
  #2  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:29 PM
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You said you have a code reader.
Any codes? Hard OR pending, getting set? Pending will not turn on the SES but if there is a pending code related to emissions (O2 sensor(s) for example) it MIGHT be inhibiting the test. (pending codes show up w a small p or pd usually after the Pxxx code)


I read a response on a non tech site regarding saturn drive cycles that you must also cold start with the fuel level between 15 to 85 %, and do a minimum of 3 drive cycles with a minimum of 17 hours between drive cycles, and you cannot refuel.

No idea if this is true. It is not in the official GM doc, but......?

Also came across many references that indicated if the operating temp is too low (ects and or thermostat issue) or the battery/alt is weak, some of the tests simply will not run, which, barring codes, is what MAY be your issue

GUESSES
 

Last edited by derf; 04-26-2015 at 11:07 PM.
  #3  
Old 04-26-2015, 10:48 PM
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No codes. Hmm, the gas thing could be worth trying. Seems like a really oddly specific requirement, but I'll try it out.
 
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:08 AM
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The monitors won't run if the ambient air temp is too cold also. The fuel spec is right on. I will have to do some research about the O2 monitor. I can get a rig to run all the monitors on one drive cycle. I have a 9 mile route figured out from my shop at work.
 
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:47 AM
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ambient IAT intake air temp must be 39-86 F
diff betw IAT and ECT reading must be 8 deg F or less (or 6 deg depending on what you read)

To classify as cold start as far as PCM is concerned for drive cycle testing
 
  #6  
Old 04-27-2015, 11:20 PM
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Default Drive Cycle for I/M

Hey there martin.ky

After looking into your dilemma, I've found some information, and things to watch while going through a drive cycle to set your Catalyst Monitor. I can tell you Derf has done some extensive research, because there is very limited information out there on this issue. General drive cycles will work for most monitors, but the catalyst is the most crucial monitor because it evaluates the exhaust gas emissions. I have it, on good authority if you follow these steps to the letter, and watch your data, you can do this!

You will need someone with a scanner to accompany you, to watch all the pid's I've listed, to make sure every thing is withing range or "parameters." Pid's are what you select on a scanner in your custom data list. The smaller your list, the more accurate the information. You could have as many as 30 or 40 pids, but you only need to watch a few to make this work.

The engine will need to be cold, 41-86F.

Cold Start, no Codes present.
The barometric pressure (BARO) is more than 81 kPa.
The engine coolant temperature (ECT) is between (41-86F).
The intake air temperature (IAT) is between (41-86F).
The start-up ECT and IAT are within (16F) of each other.
The battery voltage is between 9-16 volts.
The fuel level is between 15-85 percent.

Important: Whenever the ignition is turned ON, ignition positive voltage is supplied to the HO2S heaters. After verifying the enable criteria, (pids listed above, within range) turn OFF the ignition for approximately 5 minutes to allow the sensors to cool before continuing with the test. Once the engine is started, DO NOT turn the engine OFF for the remaining portion of the set procedure.

Turn OFF all of the accessories,
Set the vehicle parking brake.
Verify the transmission is in Park for automatic transmissions and Neutral for manual transmissions.
Start the engine and allow the engine to idle for 2 minutes.

Acceleration at part throttle to (55 mph) with this speed maintained until the engine reaches operating temperature. This may be up to 8 minutes depending on the start up coolant temperature.
Continued operation under these conditions for an additional 6 minutes.

Acceleration at part throttle to (45-55 mph) with this speed maintained for 2 minutes.
Deceleration to (0 mph).
Engine idling for 2 minutes while the following criteria is maintained:
The service brake is depressed.
The automatic transmission is in drive.
The manual transmission is in neutral with the clutch pedal depressed.
Then check the monitors, to see if the catalyst is ready. If so, you are done! If not, it may take 3 drive cycles to set, just repeat the steps as outlined and you should be fine.

You will most likely need access to a highway to maintain the 55 mph for 10 to 15 minutes. Then find an exit and shoulder to stop the vehicle. You can, of course print this out, and take it to a local shop and let them follow my outline for this procedure. But I would ride along, or drive the vehicle while they watch the scanner, to make sure they follow this to the letter. To us mechanics...time is money, and everyone tries to short-cut everything. There are no short-cuts here, as I'm sure you know by now. Please let Us know if this works for you. Best of luck!
 
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Old 05-03-2015, 02:42 PM
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Please!
I am trying to follow this thread and there is a fair amount of very specific information being presented that sounds as if it is correct, but for us with inquiring minds?
What does this mean?
"I've bought a reader since then, and can see that only one monitor is still incomplete, and that's the catalyst monitor"
What is a monitor? That is a device that is alien to my knowledge and because I lost my technical write up when my computer died and it still is for he moment anyway lost, I can not look it up.
Thanks
Uncljohn
 

Last edited by uncljohn; 05-03-2015 at 02:44 PM. Reason: Clarity
  #8  
Old 05-03-2015, 05:25 PM
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From your vehicle list the only Obd2 car you have is the Chrysler. If you were to clear any trouble codes you would a p1000 code which means your codes have been reset. They will not smog check your car until p1000 clears. There are several tests the car runs on itself to clear the p1000 codes. If your car will not run one of the tests they will fail your car for smog. The heated oxygen sensor test is the most difficult to get to run.
 
  #9  
Old 05-03-2015, 08:09 PM
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Thumbs up OBD2 Monitors

Hey uncljohn! To answer your question; The OBD2 system monitors some functions every time you start or drive your vehicle. Only some functions are tested under certain driving and operating conditions. Some monitor tests are continuous, and are going on all the time. These test Monitor's are:

Misfire Monitor: Detects ignition and fuel related misfires that may cause emissions to increase or cause damage to the catalytic converter.

Fuel System Monitor: Detects changes in the air-fuel mixture that may cause emissions increase.

Comprehensive Component Monitor: Detects any major faults in engine sensors that cause an increase in emissions.

Monitors that run only under certain conditions are:

Evap. Monitor: Checks for fuel vapor leaks, and the operation of components within the evap. system.

HEGO Monitor: The Heated Exhaust Gas Monitor checks that the Oxygen Sensors are functioning normally and are within their proper operating range.

Catalyst Efficiency Monitor: Verifies that the catalytic converter is operating at high enough efficient to keep the exhaust emission within acceptable limits. This Monitor compares the signals from the up-stream and down-stream Oxygen Sensors to monitor the operation of the catalytic converters.

Just to clear up any confusion, 02 LW300 was right about that P1000 code, unfortunately, this code only pertains specifically to Fords. No other car manufacturer uses this protocol for setting code P1000. This code just means that the PCM didn't complete a full diagnostic cycle, and is set when the battery has been disconnected, codes have been cleared or sometimes even when a vehicle has been towed.

The On Board Diagnostic (OBD) monitors are performed during the OBD2 Drive Cycle. This is true for all OBD2 systems. But for Ford's, P1000 is stored in continuous memory if any of the OBD monitors do not carry out their full diagnostic check. This code does not turn on the check engine light, and can be cleared with a scanner or code reader, but will reset during the first drive cycle if any monitor was unable to run it's full monitoring system test.

I hope this clears up any misconceptions about the OBD2 system Monitors, and the meaning of P1000 code on Ford system monitors.
 
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:33 PM
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Thanks Alpha, about all I have worked on is Fords and Internationals for the last ten years.
 

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