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-   -   Engine cut out transmission slam in and out (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/saturn-vue-24/engine-cut-out-transmission-slam-out-11112/)

dnelson1941 11-03-2017 05:00 PM

Engine cut out transmission slam in and out
 
2002 Saturn Vue driving down the highway 70 miles an hour speedometer starts fluctuating engine Cuts in and out transmission slams in and out now tranny has no torque in drive, how to start out manually in low gear and when shift into drive loud bang

02 LW300 11-03-2017 08:31 PM

Sounds like you may have a cvt automatic transmission. If so it may have expired. If you have a 5 speed automatic maybe we can help.

derf 11-03-2017 09:33 PM

-1) No double posting please. Especially when the symptom descriptions do not even come close to matching. No one has time for that.
0) I don't see a question.???? I'll assume the question is "what's wrong?"
1) speedometer fluctuating above and below 70 or 70 and below?
2) Engine cuts in and out? You mean stalls and restarts? This is odd behavior for an automatic tranny vehicle. Do you mean engine POWER cuts in and out? Please clarify
3) Transmission slams in and out of what to what? One forward gear to another forward gear and back? Same two gears all the time? One forward gear to Neutral and back?
4) Tranny Slams when shifting but lands in proper gear? Then slips out? Into a forward drive gear? Neutral? Please clarify.
5) Tranny has no torque in drive=vehicle cannot move at all in Drive?? OR does it have very low torque/power when shifted into drive? Please clarify.
6) Starting out in Low gears works ok, but when you shift into normal "Drive", there is a loud bang? Can the car move in normal Drive? Is the bang occurring when it shifts into gear or is there a delay? Please clarify.
7) What are the transmission fluid level and color? Does it smell burnt?
8) Is the "Check Engine" or "Service Engine Soon" or "Service" light illuminated? If so, please have the diagnostic codes read at autozone or similar for free if you can get the vehicle there. If not you may be able to do a loan a tool for a basic scanner where you put down a deposit, take the tool home, use it, bring it back, and get your deposit back --so it's free. The codes will tell us what the vehicle has self diagnosed from its own self analysis.
9) How many miles on the vehicle and at what mileage was the transmission fluid last changed?
10) Does the vehicle drive/shift normally at low speeds?
11) Does the vehicle work in reverse?

Without knowing which gears are involved, we can't condemn a particular clutch pack or band or solenoid or even know if the Transmission Control Module is involved.
Knowing the codes is invaluable because it often provides information you would otherwise have to start dismantling the tranny to find out
Might also be a torque converter issue.

THESE ARE GUESSES.

Need the additional info requested above

derf 11-03-2017 09:34 PM

cvt's were 03 and 04 only

WRONG

EDIT: CVTs used in the Vue: 2002-2004
CVTs used in the ION: 2003-2004

Ya learn something every day

dnelson1941 11-06-2017 08:58 AM

02 Saturn vue
 
I have a M45 5 speed Tiptronic transmission while traveling at highway speed it would suddenly jump in and out of gear and the speedometer fluctuate after I stopped I couldn't get any torque out of drive it would very very slowly move the car I'd have to shift to low gear and then back into drive to get it going. It's sad all night and now it's running fine, anyone got an idea what it might be

Strider 11-06-2017 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by dnelson1941 (Post 58391)
I have a M45 5 speed Tiptronic transmission while traveling at highway speed it would suddenly jump in and out of gear and the speedometer fluctuate after I stopped I couldn't get any torque out of drive it would very very slowly move the car I'd have to shift to low gear and then back into drive to get it going. It's sad all night and now it's running fine, anyone got an idea what it might be

to me it sounds like the transmission or engine is jumping into limp mode. Is the check engine light on, is engine power reduced engine on (usually looks similar to check engine light, at least on my Vue, with a down arrow)?

dnelson1941 11-06-2017 09:07 AM

02 Saturn vue
 
Yeah I've been running with couple of different check engine lights on so I didn't see any difference I'll have to take it somewhere and have it codes pulled

derf 11-06-2017 10:37 AM

Thank you for the enhanced problem description and the additional information about the vehicle being fine the next morning.
That key bit of information greatly narrows down the possibilities of what the source of the problem may be.
The info about multiple Service engine lights being on is also crucial. Indeed, getting the codes read should help us take a giant leap forward in tracking down the problem.
Hopefully, any transmission codes, if there are any, will show up as P0070 and other P07xx codes. Some of the codes are stored in the transmission Control Module (TCM) and require a more sophisticated scanner than Autozone's to read them.
But I'm getting ahead of things.

Getting the codes read at Autozone or similar is definitely the next step per Strider's recommendation. I would suggest you ask them if the down arrow (per Strider) is on. This is a critical piece of information. Be sure to request a printout of each code for your records and so that you don't have to memorize them (i can't).

When you post the codes here, please post them here as Pxxxx, where the xxxx is a four digit number. The code descriptions from autozone are often bogus -- we'll sort them out for you

Thanks

Derf

dnelson1941 11-06-2017 04:06 PM

02 Saturn vue
 
Okay I went to AutoZone and got the codes pulled out there's quite a few of them I have a p0327 a p0161 p0056 P0700 and a p0562 what do you think

dnelson1941 11-06-2017 04:22 PM

02 Saturn vue
 
By the way they didn't know anything about a down arrow

Strider 11-08-2017 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by dnelson1941 (Post 58399)
Okay I went to AutoZone and got the codes pulled out there's quite a few of them I have a p0327 a p0161 p0056 P0700 and a p0562 what do you think

P0327 is a knock sensor code. P0056 is a HO2 sensor code. P0161 heated O2 sensor code. P0562 ignition voltage low code. P0700 is a transmission fault code. So with that said, I would primarily focus on P0562 and P0700. As derf said you will need a special tool to get a better idea what exact codes the transmission control module has. P0700 is a generic code that says that TCM (transmission control module) has sent a request for MIL (malfunction indicator lamp) to ECM (engine control module). Now if you car was running fine and that code appeared, I could have said that either TCM or ECM is bad as possibility. But, since you said your car is having issues, with that code set I think there is more that is going on with transmission than the codes you gave us. As far as heated 02 sensor codes (HO2S), if you diagnose the P0562 code, the others might get fixed too. P0562 is ignition low voltage code which says that your ignition system has lower than minimum required voltage to run the vehicle. The codes for HO2S is all have to deal with circuit voltage low, so all of those could be related to same thing.

derf 11-11-2017 10:08 AM


Originally Posted by Strider (Post 58407)
P0327 is a knock sensor code. P0056 is a HO2 sensor code. P0161 heated O2 sensor code. P0562 ignition voltage low code. P0700 is a transmission fault code. So with that said, I would primarily focus on P0562 and P0700. As derf said you will need a special tool to get a better idea what exact codes the transmission control module has. P0700 is a generic code that says that TCM (transmission control module) has sent a request for MIL (malfunction indicator lamp) to ECM (engine control module). Now if you car was running fine and that code appeared, I could have said that either TCM or ECM is bad as possibility. But, since you said your car is having issues, with that code set I think there is more that is going on with transmission than the codes you gave us. As far as heated 02 sensor codes (HO2S), if you diagnose the P0562 code, the others might get fixed too. P0562 is ignition low voltage code which says that your ignition system has lower than minimum required voltage to run the vehicle. The codes for HO2S is all have to deal with circuit voltage low, so all of those could be related to same thing.

I concur. In fact, the P0562 is likely at the heart of this.

The code sets when the system voltage is lower than 10V for 60 sec. It should be in the neighborhood of 14.4V. Not only will this cause other sensors to generate crap for data, throwing false codes, it may very cause the transmission control module to misbehave. And the solenoids involved in shifting gears are likely in chaos.

My first move would be to get a full load test done on your charging system. This is available for free at AutoZone. Ask them to run it twice.
Your alternator supplies current to all the electronics in the car AFTER the car is started. If the requested current cannot be satisfied by the alternator, I suppose in theory it could pull from the battery but if so, then of the current requested is met, it should be able to do so at 14.4V.

But it isn't.

I believe Saturn started using ECM controlled alternators to vary the output current of the alternator. If so, there should be a 3 or 4 wire lead connected to the alternator that runs back to the ecm. Wiring problems here will likely make for an unstable mess.

So will poor connections at the alternator output, it's case grounding, both battery terminals, and the - batt ground connection.

Those are easy things to remove clean and reconnect.

My bet is that the voltage regulator inside the alternator is flaking out when it gets hot. This can probably be verified by reading DCV at the alt output vs chassis ground. If the voltage is unstable, the v reg is likely to blame.
Do this measurement right after startup and then when everything goes whack. You will likely see a stable V at cold start-up (pls record) and an unstable one when things go awry. It is not at all uncommon for electronic components that are marginal to act up and begin to fail when they get hot. I'm thinking that if it is a voltage regulator failure problem then it may only show if the load test is done while the car is acting up but I cannot be sure of that. So I would take it for the load test after it has begun acting up.

If after testing, the alternator is at fault either through not functioning properly or the voltage regulator being bad, I would recommend replacing it with an oem part. The computer-controlled alternators can be very finicky as we saw with a post last week from someone with a 2003 Vue. You do not have to get an oem which I believe would be AC Delco but it is my recommendation. It will be more expensive. as for remanufactured versus new that is up to you. Reman should be fine for your purposes.
There is also a chance that there is a bad cell in your battery that is either shorted or simply cannot store charge. This would cause the overall voltage to be dragged down. However, because you have not mentioned issues with starting the vehicle, I do not believe this to be the cause. Just mentioning for the sake of completeness.
There is also a chance that it could be the ECM, but let's not go there until we have to.

So don't throw Parts at it. Go and get the free load test. It should give you a lot of information. Please post the results.


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