brakes drag after 20 minutes of stop n go.
 

08 vue xe auto. Brakes drag as title says. Flushed the fluid , change master, put new pads, change front brake lines. It still drags. Ideas?

changed pads all around?
which were worn prematurely?
were they worn evenly?
If not I'd suspect a caliper hanging up. The pad wear should show you where.
Actually. is that a 4 wheel disc or a front disc/rear drum vehicle? Too early in the morning for me to look that up.

When you say you changed the front brake lines, are you referring to the actual metal lines? If so, you may want to replace the rubber brake hoses. They wear out from the inside and are likely to collapse and hold pressure on the calipers and pads. If you've replaced the rubber hoses, then you may want to check the rear ones for failure. They will usually have a soft spot in them that you can find by squeezing them from one end to the other. If that all checks out, you may have a defective caliper or proportioning valve. It's rare for a proportioning valve to go bad, though.

Woah. I wasn't expecting responses so quick. Thanks guys. Here's the details.

All disk breaks. Abs. System. I threw in a master Cylinder due to it leaking inside the brake booster. About 8 months later I started to get a hard pedal feeling once in a while. I changed the front pads because it needed it. They were about 15% on both sides. Not uneven. Brake pedal issue calmed down and I was happy thinking something in the brake job fixed it. 3 weeks later, intermittent hard pedal sensation came back. I figured, has to be collapsing brake lines. Next time the problem came up. I put a lazer thermometer on the rims and noticed ps wheel was hotter. Took the wheel of and sure enough the wheel was dragging. So I changed only that side brake flex hose.not the metal. Bleed bith front wheel just in case with 1 quart of brake fluid.Drove the car yesterday and the problem still there. Here is the kicker that most like give away the culprit. If I shut the engine off and pump the brake till they feel rock hard, then start the engine, the brake goes back to normal and the car rolls with the slightest push by hand. So that unfreezez what ever is causing it. And here is the other kicker, I can feel the brakes dragging due to the pedal feels slightly harder. They never feeeze up completely, just drag a bit. But anyways. .. When this issue happens, a few times while im at a red light I fell the pedal suddenly drop from the hard padel sensation to a normal sansation as im letting go of the brakes the creep up closer to anticipating the green light. Then the cars brakes is perfectly fine. A few minutes later, I start to feel the brake pedal getting stiff again. Hahaha! Driving me nuts.

Run down on clues.
Shutting engine off and pumping pedal unfreeze the drag.

Intermittently fixes is self as I drive. I can feel it on the pedal and putting the car in neutral the car will move very easy to the slightest inclination.

I'm doing a test drove now to see how long of stop and go driving in the city will it take to have the padel start feeling stiff. Also. .. on a abs system, is the proportioning valve inside the abs unit? And I have been told to check the booster check valve. The booster has 2 things. Brake master unit and a 1 inch thick hose. Would the valve be at the booster side or the the other end?

Guys, found this. Corvette guy had the exact same thing to the tee. He resolved it by adjusting the brake switch travel to the pedal in quick he did replace a while back. . In my case I haven't touched the brake switch. All I've done is replace the MC. But I don't recall the being any adjustment needed for the rod. I just threw it in. And it worked fine for months before this problem began.

forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-tech/3121928-front-brake-pads-drag.html

Just checked the switch. Was not resting on the pedal wrong. It was perfect.

Drove it for 1 hour. Problem didn't Po up this time. I checked the booster check valve. It's connected to the booster side I noticed. Issue is. .. I didn't know how to check it. It did hiss very well when I removed it so the booster is working. Can you blow or sick on the valve to determine if it's bad?

I'm mechanicaly knowledged guys, but this one has me puzzled. I will wait to see what you guys think. Thanks for the input. I'm still driving it after checking the brake switch and unplugging the booster hose. cleaned the boostervalve grommet. Checked the boater hose for cracks. Everything looks good. Now that I want to problem to come up, it's not happening. I wanted to see if it's only the ps wheel that's sticks or both.i know for a fact the front ps wheel was dragging.

The temp on the ps wheel indicates what derf said. You have a caliper that's sticking. Replace that thing and happy motoring. You seem to be willing to try different things and that's great, but you're just doing extra work that a simple caliper change would most likely take care of.

Hey rube, I know. .. But I've gathered more data on this issue. Could a slight vacuum issue on the booster vacuum hose or the check valve have caused it? The problem went completely away. Only thing I touched was adjust the brake switch but that was NOT interfering with the brake pedal. and removed the booster hose for inspection. Took the check valving off and just looked at it. Didn't know how to check it. But after doing that, issue hasn't come up. Knock on wood! I'm doing the treat brakes today, pads are very low.

That one's got me stumped, but that isn't hard to do. I'm not very smart anyway. Perhaps there was a slight crimp in the hose from the check valve and your removing it straightened it out. I don't know of any way to test a check valve, but they rarely go bad. Just enjoy driving it now that you seem to have it fixed and post back if it starts to act up again. Stay active on the forum or your account will be deleted. You got to participate to hang around.

Ok. Problem solved. After removing like I said 2 days ago, the Brake hose for inspection, it seemed to have done the trick. So yeah rube, original hose and never been touched. Must have formed some crispy film just enough to cause a leak. But I did the rear brakes yesterday. I did the fronts like 3 months ago. But anyways, here are the pads. Notice the thinner one? That's the culprit. P.s. rear. The caliper pin grease btw, was some what dry. Definitely dry enough to be concerned. So I think my diagnosis of a slight booster hose vacuum leak and some what dry caliper pins was the problem. Wouldyou guys agree? I'll be hanging around here. :)

I can't wrap my head around that vacuum leak, but who knows? As far as the caliper pins go, yes, they do need to be properly lubricated in order to work the way they're supposed to. And sticking around here is a good idea. A lot of these guys know the Saturns very well and can help you out when you have a problem. I'm just a 56 year old novice. I keep my own cars going and have for over 40 years, but I don't claim to be a mechanic or know that much.

So far so good. They haven't dragged.

Good news and two thumbs up for being persistent.

Hahahaha! What a world! Guess what. Problem is back. Lol. But on the good side, it's not that bad as before but the culprit is still there. I noticed this morning after being in traffic for 30 of city driving that my pedal felt a little hard. Not as hard as before but slightly. I figured it's just me but when I came to s stop light with a slight inclination I put the car in neutral. And yup, car didn't roll. The brake dragging. But after driving for another 3 minutes or so the brakes slightly hard feel went away. Put the car in neutral and the car rolled. Lol I'll olollolol. I'm going mad!

Would a booster check valve do this symptom? Or a master cylinder? I'm beginning to think brake line of the rear passanger since it's the one with the 40 less pad on one side . If not the caliper. Oh boy.

I'm just going to try the cheapest route. Brake line first. 32 $.any thoughts appreciated.

But I'm close. Everything I did helped a lot! Also, a brake booster wouldn't do a intermittent symptom right? Shouldn't it just fail and not fix is self?

I haven't gone back through the entire posts, so forgive me for asking if you've already done this. Have you tried replacing the caliper guide pins on that rear brake? Maybe one of them has a flat spot worn on it and it's just not letting the caliper fully release from time to time. Did you lube them really good before putting it back together? I'm glad it's not my car, because it's driving me nuts too! LOL

Hahahaha! I did lube the death out of it. And a visual inspection showed nothing unusual. No rust either. But all I've done has helped tremendously. I'm busy driving it until the wheel falls off. Lol

All I can say is good luck with it. Unless you have the time and money to go through and replace everything in the entire brake system, including the proportioning valve, I'd say just drive it like it is.

I know. I hate to be that guy. Changed everything but layer find out it was air in the line. Lol. But I think I nailed it so I will update you guys. The car has been running really good and only got 1 hard padel they the week. Not bad since I was getting it daily. So yesterday I rerouted the booster hose like it should have been prior to me inspecting it. I did pop out the valve and grommet. Blew and sucked and it works fine. Put it bad and routed the booster hose. Drove all day and the pattern is back. 20 minutes into stop and go traffic the pedal gies hard and brakes drag. Lol. So im changing the valve and grommet soon. HAS TO BE THAT!

Man, that's going to be a real bitch if you discover that the check valve was bad and you did all of that other work. I'm not saying it was for nothing. You've basically redone the brake system and I'd call that preventative maintenance. Let us know what happens.

Hey rube. Problem solved. I posted this on another forum.

["But I'm confident I found the problem! I suspect either the booster check valve or the factory clamp on it. Why? Last week I took it off to visually inspect it. Nothing looked bad. At the time I didn't know how to check it. So I just put it back and the problem went completely away for the whole week. I figured a small vacuum leak on the factory clamp. Remember that Rube? So, 3 days ago I found out how to check the valve. Blow and suck. In which it did exactly that. So I put it back and drove the car. 20 minutes later the exact same problem came back. After a full week of flawless operating. So I said "bingo". Touching it make the problem return. So I simply readjusted the factory clamp a little and turned the grommet just a little to see if it had a effect. Guess what! For the part 3 days it hasn't done it! To is either the factory clamp isn't gripping properly or the grommet is a bit warped. So I'm going to just buy a new check valve that comes with the new grommet since it's super cheap. 9 $. And that's should eliminate the issue. Thanks for all the feed back! Luckily I didn't spend on replacing the caliper and all the lines! So everyone remember this!"]


So luckily I only went - 38 $ in tracing this issue. Thats from PS brake line in which showed the highest wheel temp. The front brakes were done about 2 to 3 months ago since they were below 10%. In which I thought that it could possible eliminated the issue. Problem went away for about 3 days. I thought, awesome! But it came back on the 4th day. But now that I think about it, I did move the booster house a little when I was filling the brake reservoir for a simple bleed. That must have been the temporary cure I experienced. Fast forward 3 months later, I got concerned since the intermittent hard pedal and dragging were a daily thing. That's when I said let's just look at the rear brakes completely. That's when I discovered one pad that was 50% less than the rest. In total being about at 10% left of its usage. I figured might as well throw in new pads since they are close. So luckily all the work was needed but the 38 $ front brake line. So remember this!

Hope the valve lays this problem to rest, but I'd still be concerned about that caliper/guide pin if the wear was that grossly uneven.

Ok. Put in the new factory booster valve and gromet. Nope. The the problem. Lololol. So now I'm suspecting I did the bleeding procedure wrong and may have air in the system. Do you guys know what type of abs it has? Is it alphi7? And what's the proper bleeding procedure? I did the RR RL FR FL old school method. It worked and got good brake pressure, but maybe air is expanding with heat?

Here is another hint I noticed. Brakes dragged. I open the good and unplug the booster valve. I hear a healthy vacuum hiss, immediately the car rolls back. So when the vacuum gets removed the brakes let go. Hmmm. Either the booster is the problem or I might be close in my theory of air expanding. What do you guys think?

I don't think it's air expanding. You only have a certain volume available in the brake lines. How in the world could any air in there expand? I'm no physicist nor a mechanic, but I just don't see how that's possible. Hell, you've replaced everything except the booster. Why not go ahead and replace that too, if you can find one at a reasonable price?

LOl. Hey rube, dang it! Im being told this by others that this might be the case. Improper bleeding with air in the abs module that requires a tech scan tool. So I'm going to try the other bleeding procedure. RL FR RR FL. Im leaning the booster last, is a big job. Thx for reply thou. This driving me nuts.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know diddly about ABS systems, but still think the law of physics will apply. I agree with the way you bled the brakes. I've always done mine in the RR, LR, RF, LF fashion and have NEVER had the problems you're having. I'll be 57 years old in August, and have been working on my own vehicles for over 40 years. I don't claim to be a mechanic, but I've kept all of my stuff going since I was just a teenager. I wish someone could explain that deal to me about the air in the system expanding!

makes no sense to me that only one wheel would drag if it were the booster.

Based on brake wear pix above and re-occurrence, to me it seems that the caliper pin may be bent and not allowing proper motion, or the caliper piston is not retracting.

The proof is in the pads

Damn, Derf. I always heard the proof is in the pudding. Now I've had to learn a new saying! LOL

I did a friend look at it. He said the brake pedal feels not right. He said he feels it dropping a bit. I kinda noticed that myself but I thought that's some what normal for all disk brakes. They feel good to me but if you do pump then a bit hard I can make it go all the way down. But in normal driving conditions, I never have to push the pedal down to stop fully. I can lock the wheels with the pedal half way down honestly. What's your pinion on that? I called in for a warranty replacement. Might throw it in today and bleed it Like lots of ppl are recommending. A cross bleed for abs. I'll update later.

Yup, only odd wear was the rear right. I'm throwing in the new warranty master today for peace of mind. Some others are thinking the MC could be faulty. Since its a free
Replacement on warranty and will cost me only time, I'm doing it. If that fails to resolve it. I will take a closer look at the rr caliper and the hose. Most likely just throw in a house since they are not expensive. Lol... I'm turning into that guy that replaced everything including grandmas cooking ware

I don't think it's the caliper though, since removing the booster valve instantly frees the drag. Just my thoughts.

I did the master Cylinder. Lololol. I did the cross bleed. I regret it. Lol. My pedal goes weak to the ground when I put the bottle on the front passanger and rear driver cakipers. Lol. But leave it for 15 second and it builds pressure again. Brakes feel ok. But haven't driven it fully. They grab well. But I'm curious if the dragging will occur. Update later.

Hahaha! Son of a gun! Open can of worms. In having trouble bleeding this now. I come toa stop and there's good brake travel and pressure, as I wait for the light, suddenly the brakes pedal slowly sinks low. I have to press harder to stop the car from rolling. Almost goes to the floor. Sound like air? Does this pattern consistently. I pump the pedal and hold it firm, give it about 15 seconds and it begins to sink. Its another rebuilt MC from Oreilly. I going to bleed the death out of them tomorrow again. Good news is they haven't dragged ! Lolollololol

One more thing guys. Thank you a million too. You guys have been helpful. So the new master is in. With the engine off. Its rock hard. Putting about 20lbs of foot wait I'm able to make it go down slowly to the ground. Please don't tell me it's a faulty MC! Will air in the line do this?