Service (wrench) light
#1
12-18-2013, 11:00 PM
Service (wrench) light
Yesterday morning on my commute to work, I hit a drift just over a hill and put my 1997 SW2 in the ditch. Bummer. I got it winched out by a very angry man with a tow truck, but now I've got the Service (wrench) light on my dash. It's not there when I start the car, but within a couple seconds, it pops up. I've been told it could be related to lights being out in my instrument cluster, but everything seems fine there.
I brought it to a car wash and cleared out as much of the snow and ice as I could, but had to chisel quite a bit out in my garage tonight as the buildup was causing my car to shake somewhat violently. After clearing that away, no shake, no pulling. It drives smooth, starts and runs with no problem.
In addition, I have two trouble codes when I connect my scan tool (actually 3, but my O2 sensor was listed as intermittent and will need new wiring to fully correct). P1650 and P1651, both listed by my scan tool as Quad Driver Module B Malfunction. 1651 is listed as both a current and history code, even after clearing the codes. 1650 is listed as current, history, and MIL by my scan tool.
Does anyone have any idea what could be causing these codes and how to correct them?
I brought it to a car wash and cleared out as much of the snow and ice as I could, but had to chisel quite a bit out in my garage tonight as the buildup was causing my car to shake somewhat violently. After clearing that away, no shake, no pulling. It drives smooth, starts and runs with no problem.
In addition, I have two trouble codes when I connect my scan tool (actually 3, but my O2 sensor was listed as intermittent and will need new wiring to fully correct). P1650 and P1651, both listed by my scan tool as Quad Driver Module B Malfunction. 1651 is listed as both a current and history code, even after clearing the codes. 1650 is listed as current, history, and MIL by my scan tool.
Does anyone have any idea what could be causing these codes and how to correct them?
#2
12-19-2013, 07:25 AM
In my book - P1651 refers to the fan relay circuit. Your excursion off-road may have damaged the fan, or it's wiring
#3
12-19-2013, 07:27 AM
As you have stated, it is some form of a (output) driver problem with the computer that runs your car and a multiplicity of other things like a bad light bulb on a dash display or something important that makes the car work.
The instructions I have on a variation of something like a Mitchael's or Chilton's trouble shooting suggestions is based on using your scan tool to run something called a PDM test and follow the instructions on the scan tool.
As this is something I do not have, that is a scan tool as all of them I found had statements that they would not work on a Saturn S series car I have not purchased anything new. Although I have accumulated a Professional mechanics scan tool that is out dated for their use but not for mine. I probably will never up date it as the going costs are about $1000.00 per year for the up dates but it works on my Saturn and my Fuel injected 1980 AMC Spirit. If I ever need something for a new car, at this point in time they are a couple hundred for one that will serve my purpose on something newer.
But the instructions on how to use the scan tool to further diagnose things are a bit more than long and assume your scan tool can do certain things.
If you want the instructions I would have to print them out and either send them by snail mail or scan them into my computer as a picture and then send them out as a jpeg.
Lacking anything else, I would inspect plugs and wiring harnesses to see if your impact damaged anything and this would linclude plugging and unplugging things.v
The instructions I have on a variation of something like a Mitchael's or Chilton's trouble shooting suggestions is based on using your scan tool to run something called a PDM test and follow the instructions on the scan tool.
As this is something I do not have, that is a scan tool as all of them I found had statements that they would not work on a Saturn S series car I have not purchased anything new. Although I have accumulated a Professional mechanics scan tool that is out dated for their use but not for mine. I probably will never up date it as the going costs are about $1000.00 per year for the up dates but it works on my Saturn and my Fuel injected 1980 AMC Spirit. If I ever need something for a new car, at this point in time they are a couple hundred for one that will serve my purpose on something newer.
But the instructions on how to use the scan tool to further diagnose things are a bit more than long and assume your scan tool can do certain things.
If you want the instructions I would have to print them out and either send them by snail mail or scan them into my computer as a picture and then send them out as a jpeg.
Lacking anything else, I would inspect plugs and wiring harnesses to see if your impact damaged anything and this would linclude plugging and unplugging things.v
#5
12-26-2013, 08:00 PM
Thank you guys for your help. The problem turned out to be pretty low tech. A burned out fuse and ice clogging the radiator fan in difficult to see spots. After chiseling out the ice (and a couple buckets of hot water for good measure), the fan spins freely. I'll be making a trip to Walmart for a new fuse in the very near future. I'm honestly not too terribly worried about the fan not working right this moment as we're looking at 37 degrees tomorrow, 30 on Saturday, and a high of -2 on Sunday.
As for the O2 sensor code, that turned into a crankshaft position sensor code. We swapped that out for an old, but still functional one and the check engine light went away. I'm guessing it was poorly timed coincidence.
As for the O2 sensor code, that turned into a crankshaft position sensor code. We swapped that out for an old, but still functional one and the check engine light went away. I'm guessing it was poorly timed coincidence.
Last edited by raddatzjos; 12-26-2013 at 09:32 PM.
#7
12-27-2013, 07:32 PM
Alright, I'm not sure what's going on at this point, and if it's related or not. The "known good" CPS is giving the exact same problems the old one did. I'll grab a brand new one tomorrow, but I suspect that may not be the problem. Any thoughts?
On the bright side, install the fuse and the service light goes out, so there doesn't appear to be any other issues related to that.
On the bright side, install the fuse and the service light goes out, so there doesn't appear to be any other issues related to that.
#9
12-30-2013, 09:26 AM
My apologies. When I posted that, it was just the check engine light coming on giving me code P0340, camshaft position sensor (for Saturns, meaning crankshaft position sensor). Now it starts a bit rough and runs funny if I get too close to 1500 RPMs, but runs fine at higher speeds and still seems to idle around 900 just fine.
It's been too cold to swap out the sensors as I'm not blessed with a heated garage. I probably won't be able to until Friday or Saturday when we have a high of 18.
It's been too cold to swap out the sensors as I'm not blessed with a heated garage. I probably won't be able to until Friday or Saturday when we have a high of 18.
#10
12-30-2013, 11:03 AM
P0340 is for the camshaft position sensor, not the crankshaft position sensor. The camshaft position sensor is in the EI module that the coil packs sit on, specifically it is a capacitive plate under the #4 side of the 1/4 coil pack.
There is a difference in the characteristics of a spark under compression and one not under compression. The capacitive plate picks up the voltage difference and determines when the spark on the #4 cylinder is during the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.
Some of the things that cause the CMP to not read the cam position are the sparkplug, the spark plug wire and corrosion in the terminals of the spark plug wire or the coil pack. The EI module or the wiring to it could also cause the problem, but it is a pretty rugged circuit. You may still have some water or ice causing the problem.
The engine will run fine without the CMP signal. The injectors will pulse twice on every cycle of the engine instead of sequentially, but squirt less gas on each pulse. In the end, the engine efficiency will be slightly reduced, but once the engine is fully warmed up and driven for awhile, the ice should melt and the water evaporate so maybe the P0340 will correct itself.
There is a difference in the characteristics of a spark under compression and one not under compression. The capacitive plate picks up the voltage difference and determines when the spark on the #4 cylinder is during the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke.
Some of the things that cause the CMP to not read the cam position are the sparkplug, the spark plug wire and corrosion in the terminals of the spark plug wire or the coil pack. The EI module or the wiring to it could also cause the problem, but it is a pretty rugged circuit. You may still have some water or ice causing the problem.
The engine will run fine without the CMP signal. The injectors will pulse twice on every cycle of the engine instead of sequentially, but squirt less gas on each pulse. In the end, the engine efficiency will be slightly reduced, but once the engine is fully warmed up and driven for awhile, the ice should melt and the water evaporate so maybe the P0340 will correct itself.