Saturn  Forum - Saturn Enthusiasts Forums

Saturn Forum - Saturn Enthusiasts Forums (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/)
-   Saturn S Series Sedan (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/saturn-s-series-sedan-27/)
-   -   Burning oil (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/saturn-s-series-sedan-27/burning-oil-4680/)

Moorecd 07-08-2010 10:03 AM

Burning oil
 
My 2000 Saturn SL1 (single cam) with 104m is burning a small amount of oil out the tailpipe. Not a hugh trail of blue but a small amount. Is there an additive that helps reduce this?

Thanks,
CMoore

OceanArcher 07-08-2010 05:27 PM

Kinda depends on what the failure mode of the burning oil is -- bad rings, or bad or worn valve guides, or worn seals. Some people swear by this additive or that additive, or "marvel mystery oil", or whatever. I've found them to be a temporary fix at best.

The SL1's were kinda hard on oil usage anyway -- how much you using (loosing) between oil changes ???

brags 07-10-2010 03:24 PM

mine burns a little oil too
just swich to a little thicker oil like 10w30 and use bardhal b2
that will help i use it in my saturn

uncljohn 07-10-2010 08:25 PM

By the time you can see oil consumption problems, aka tail pipe smokes. Anything that might have been preventative such as using thicker oil in the first place rather than an oil that is selected for maximum gasoline mileage has long since been passed.
Define thicker! It is summer! I used to use 10W30 as a winter grade oil. You can go heavier with no problems.
Personally I have used 20W50 since new and do not forsee having an oil consumption problem.
Hint, temperature = 110 today. In the winter, it might get as low as 40 late at night and once or twice a year.
A heavier oil does help though!

uncljohn 07-10-2010 09:08 PM

Assuming that what might be taking place, that is the oil control ring on the piston is stuck which seems to be a common observation by those who have indicated that they have taken and engine down. You might try the combination of using a heavier oil, 20 W 30 for the summer or heavier. such as 20W40 or 10 W 40 plus somthing like Z-max to see if you can get the oil control rings to break free. Personally I don't think you can but it ain't going to hurt to try. If oil consumption is not currently a problem, it is time to take preventative steps now before it is too late.

pacaman 10-06-2010 08:52 AM

looking for answers also
 
I have an 02 SL-2 with 195k. We purchased it new and still love the car I drive 120mile per day commuting and plan on 300k from it. The oil has been changed every 5k with Mobil 1 and I am glad to say that I did a compression check and the cylinders are balanced and reading 205psi witch is at the upper end of the spec. My issue is that I use about 3 quarts of oil over the 5k between oil changes and with the price of this oil I need to reduce the consumption. I park in a garage and I can say that it has no leaks or they would show up on the floor. It does not apear to burn the oil at least it is not obvious. It has used some oil since new and we were told by the dealer in 03 that it is normal for this car but that was 1/2 to 3/4 quart in 5k. Anyone have a solution that does not require pulling down the motor.

uncljohn 10-07-2010 08:03 AM

My opinion on this is probably a minority opinion and has been stated previously and to some extent contested, a heavier weight oil should have been used from day one rather than a marketing type or equivelent specifiying a light weight motor oil be used to enhance fuel mileage advertising.
Which it does even if minutely. However, old school practice at the time was change weight of oil to heavier in summer and lighter in winter which protects the engine rather than enhancing fuel mileage.
Yes, manufacturing technology improved machining pratices and tolerances were tighter than back in the day and you could suggest those things and get away with it through out the length of the warrentee.
After that? In my opinion, buyer beware.
It was some what standard to use 10W30 motor oil as a winter oil and it would word as a summer, but changing to 10W40 would work better during the summer.
This is more or less what I did with my cars at the time including my new car what ever it was and my Saturn which was purchased used with about 45,000 miles on it.
Except!
By then I had moved into the southwest and had started using 20W50 year around because it met oil viscosity chart vs operation temperatures year around. I used it then and use it now and drive my cars hard in the heat.
In direct violation of "FACTRORY" recommendation and the wording printed on the oil fill cap of the motor.
My 1994 Saturn, although of low mileage, about 100,000 does not consume oil and I am not worried about it. But then again, no car I ever owned consumed oil unless the valve guide seals went bad. I currently own 5 cars that are liscenced and drivable.
What to do now?
Mobile 1 recommended usage (From Mobil 1) is to use a good oil filter, and run it about 6000 miles and change the filter and add enough oil (generally 1 qt) and do this about (I think) 4 times.
Why? Synthetic oils do not contaminate like dinasour oil does and a good filter collects the crud and if you take it off and install a new one, the oil is still good.
That is what they say anyway and I think they have a point.
I use Mobil 1 in my Chrysler purchased new in 2007. Clearly printed on the oil cap 5W20 only. I use 20W50, replace the filter every 4000 miles and after the third filter so the 4th time interval, I change the oil and repeat the cycle. I use a good oil filter and pretty much oil filter technology says a filter is full at about 4000 miles and I use that number.
I see no reason why that will not work.
So that is one solution to cut costs.
As far as on going oil consumption, the engine is worn out, engine fix it in a can is not going to do anything. The oil control ring my also be stuck due to the type of oil (light weight) and age. Maybe it can be freed up. I doubt it personally.
But a few years back when a friend had (and still has) a rather high mileage 99 Saturn that I helped him maintain, it had started to use oil and to his experiance and mine, it was an odd situation.
We used ZMAX as an additive with a 20W50 oil change and it stopped using oil. Either we got lucky or it did something.
Dunno.
Don't really care, what I do works for me where I live.
I don't really have the problem, but in my own way I predicted it back in the day when this when this fuel mileage emphasis started and I believe I was right then and what I see today confirms my opinion.
Unfortunatly, asking your dealer why, gets an answer based on the manufacturers marketing plan, something he is required to follow when he sells the car.
When I bought my Chrysler new in 2007 I attended a dealer sponsered car care seminar where it was emphatically pointed out that the use of Synthetic oil's, specially those that were heavier than recommended by the manufacturer would void the warrentee.
I ignored it then, and ignore it now.

pacaman 10-07-2010 11:11 AM

Thanks for the feedback
 
After doing some more research on the forums I have come to this conclusion. With the compression where it is, I don't think there is a problem with the cylinders or the (compression) rings or valves. It doesn't leak. It doesn't smoke on startup so I think the valve guides & seals are ok. That leaves the oil rings being stuck witch I see as a recuring problem with these motors. I purchased a bottle of Z-Max yesterday, will try that and see what happens.

I do torubleshooting on industrial equipment and controls in my day job and can't make myself change more than one thing at a time. I have to know the effect of a change, I'm just made that way and it has served me well for years. I will post the results after it runs up a few miles.

MikeIndiana 10-15-2010 07:36 AM

The saturn manuals repeatedly warn you about overfilling with oil, because it will damage your engine, your oil rings I think.

It says to put 3 quarts in, drive it around, to make absolutely sure you don't overfill it.

You gotta get the oil hot so it will all drain out when you change it.

What I do is measure how much oil came out, so I know how much to put back in.

It's sometimes hard to read the dipstick with new oil.

uncljohn 10-16-2010 08:38 AM

==============================
What I do is measure how much oil came out, so I know how much to put back in.
==============================
This is just a bit of over kill in my opinion, although it is your car and do what you want. I do.
I believe the correct amount of oil for a Saturn is 4 not 3 quarts when you change the filter.
The dip stick is quite adequate as an indicator as to how much oil is in the car.
The owners manuals are good. Some of the best I have seen, if you have one.
However any manual that takes 4 pages to tell me how to put a key in a car and start it is open for question in my world as to how good it can be technically and as far as engines go.
I read the dip stick, it works.
I use the weight of oil recommended by oil charts vs temperture ranges the car is operated in. I use 20W50 because I can and I don't care what is written on the oil cap.
Most recommendations that you will not find in the manual is add a quart of oil for racing applications! Why, high speed and hard cornering. But you have to know the application. You modify the instructions as needed and when needed.
A blanket suggestion may not be valid if the suggestion is not given with out an explanation or
the explanation is ignored.
Some suggestions do indicate a lack of knowledge as to why they may or may not be a good one to follow. 'Specially if there is not explanation to go with them.
Over filling a crankcase can under certain circumstances can, not will, but can cause engine damage. However, change the circumstances and it becomes a valid recommendation.

OceanArcher 10-16-2010 10:13 AM

When it comes to oil consumption and oil burning, I can only relate my own experiences with Saturn ---> after 6 different Saturns over the years from '93 to now, I've never had an engine that exhibited the oil loss/burning that is being discussed here. I guess I've just been lucky (or is it diligent?) By the way, I still have the '93 and the '02 Saturns, and they still do not lose/burn oil .........

My '09 Aurn I'll have to wait a bit before including it in the list, because a factory defect (mentioned elsewhere) forced an engine change within the last 30 days -- I have no history as to whether this engine will be "burn free" or not as yet

pacaman 10-17-2010 09:01 AM

My 2 cents
 
I have talked to a number of mechanics about this since my first post and what I here is that it is well known that these (4 cyl) motors use oil. The problems occurs when the owner doesn't check the oil level, causing the damage when it gets to low. We know that by the time the dash lights come on it's to late.

I don't know what the answers are but there is enough information that tells me many of these engines use oil. I have done my own service for 8 years and 195000 mile on this car so if the problem is from my practices so be it, but I have done the same thing on all of my cars & trucks for over 40 years and this is the only one that hasn't liked it. I will keep searching, listening and trying one thing at a time untill I have an answer.

uncljohn 10-17-2010 10:19 PM

I'm with Oceon Archer, mine does not burn oil either, but it just turned 100,000 miles on it. I really don't expect it to. A 94 SL2 coupe with automatice purchase in 1996 as a used car with about 45,000 miles on it.
However, I have seen them buring oil, worked on a couple and it remains a mystery to me, a friend of mines son blew up his due to not checking oil based on miles driven. Needed to be checked about once a week. And another friend with a high mileage 99 that started burning oil. Tried some Z-max and heavier weight oil, it seemed to stop it. He move a few years back and is still driving it as far as I know.
I am now beginning to see them on the street with a blue cloud following them. I don't know the reason for it other then engine wear or neglect.
Back in the day it was not uncommon to see excessive oil consumption in cars that were driven in 4 seasons with one of the winter complete with snow.
Since I have moved out of that environment, cars I drive to not wear out there engines.

OceanArcher 10-18-2010 07:52 AM

Pacaman --

From your posting, it appears that the oil consumption problem is created by the owner(s) failing to properly maintain their vehicles. Apparently, these smaller engines will not take the "ignorance abuse" placed upon them by not performing the scheduled service requirements. I don't consider that an "engine fault", I call that a careless owner ...

pacaman 10-19-2010 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by OceanArcher (Post 22273)
Pacaman --

From your posting, it appears that the oil consumption problem is created by the owner(s) failing to properly maintain their vehicles. Apparently, these smaller engines will not take the "ignorance abuse" placed upon them by not performing the scheduled service requirements. I don't consider that an "engine fault", I call that a careless owner ...

I would agree that "igorance abuse" is part of this when someone doesn't check there oil level on a regular basis. But I haven't see many engines that loose 3 to 4 quarts of oil between oil changes unless there is something wrong with them. As far as these engines go I have seen way to many with over 250k on them to belive it is not a good design. The problem is that they loose oil. This is not a worn cylinder or valve guide problem (good compression). I have been looking into this for a few years, I have owned this one for 8 years and 195k miles and the maintenance has been done. In doing my research I have found a few people that beleive that the problem is carbon build up in the cylinders causing the oil rings to become stuck.

It is a little early to say that I have a fix but I added a bottle of Z-Max to the oil about 1000 miles ago and the usage appears to have decreased. I plan on posting the results at my next oil change. My commute is 120 miles per day and I change every 5000 with Mobil 1. If this is truly a fix I wouln't mind putting an oil additive every 3rd or 4th oil change. I plan on at least 300k from this SL2

brags 10-30-2010 03:03 PM


Originally Posted by pacaman (Post 22016)
I have an 02 SL-2 with 195k. We purchased it new and still love the car I drive 120mile per day commuting and plan on 300k from it. The oil has been changed every 5k with Mobil 1 and I am glad to say that I did a compression check and the cylinders are balanced and reading 205psi witch is at the upper end of the spec. My issue is that I use about 3 quarts of oil over the 5k between oil changes and with the price of this oil I need to reduce the consumption. I park in a garage and I can say that it has no leaks or they would show up on the floor. It does not apear to burn the oil at least it is not obvious. It has used some oil since new and we were told by the dealer in 03 that it is normal for this car but that was 1/2 to 3/4 quart in 5k. Anyone have a solution that does not require pulling down the motor.


No! 3 quarts of oil are not normal in 5.000 km if your sure you have
no leaks than i would 1st

-check the p.c.v valve for sludge or better yet change it a bad or
pluged p.c.v valve can cause oil consumption but on the other hand
you might have a sticking oil piston ring thats not expanding out
to seal in the oil? 2 remedies for that if its that. they are using

-BG 109 compression restorer thats added to the oil with engine
idling at 1300 rpm for 20 minutes (this stuff is strong stuff its what
the good proffesional shops use aside from hooking up a cleaning dialoses machine) the other choice would be to use the new penzoil ultra synthetic oil this oil is full of detergent for cleaning an engine out slowly and safely 1st thing is first check your p.c.v valve ..! then try the others and post back your results..?

brags 10-31-2010 08:29 AM

thats a good idea one thing you left out is to do this when engine
is FULLY WARM so you dont run the risk of bending a piston rod just
something to think about but yeah ! post your pictures for us all to see...
:)

pacaman 11-01-2010 07:01 AM

Thanks for all of the suggestions; I will replace the PCV valve first to see what effect it has. I will also post my results as they become apparent.

pacaman 11-10-2010 12:13 PM

followup
 
OK, I replaced the PCV valve and will see if there is any change. The one thing that I found in the process of doing this is that it seems to me to have an excessive amount of vacuum pulling on the PCV valve, enough to be pulling the oil out the top of the engine. I makes me wonder if I should be looking for a problem or just build a catch can like the one "saturnsseries" recomended in his post. Just something else to ponder!

uncljohn 11-11-2010 03:20 AM

The only time I have experianced oil being sucked through the PCV valve is when engine wear had progressed to the point where there was tremendous cylinder wear and accompanied oil consumption.
A compression check would generally confirm overall or individual cylinder compression being extemely low.
What caused the wear?
A whole bunch of reasons for sure but one of the biggest causes was long term use of oil that was way too light for the application it was being used in.
As Saturns have developed the reputation of oil consumption along with a Factory recommended light weight oil whose sole benefit was to increase Gasoline Mileage, that one gets my vote.
As I immediatly changed to a heavier oil on purchasing the car, and driven it hard for the last 16 years it does not at this time consum oil.
Nor does any other car I own other than my 1970 muscle car with failed valve stem umbrellas.

pacaman 11-11-2010 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by uncljohn (Post 22703)
The only time I have experianced oil being sucked through the PCV valve is when engine wear had progressed to the point where there was tremendous cylinder wear and accompanied oil consumption.
A compression check would generally confirm overall or individual cylinder compression being extemely low.

I agree completly and that is why the first thing I did was a compression check. If my memory is correct the range on these motors is 185-200 lbs of compression. Mine was balanced accross all 4 cylinders and at 200lbs so I don't think the rings or valve seats are a problem. This is what has been driving me crazy over the oil usage. I am at the point that I don't think it is a cylinder problem but think the oil is being forced or sucked out the top and going in the intake. Still looking for the solution. I drive 500 miles per week so anything I try will show the results in a shot period of time.

uncljohn 11-12-2010 02:54 AM

At the moment you are paralelling pretty much the direction I went on my friends 99 Saturn. It was at the time a high mileage 5 speed car as he was a traveling Anglican Priest from the Nova Scotia area he spent a lot of time on the road and the car being Canadian was in klicks. I don't remember what it had on it at the time about 200 k comes to mind though. It was consuming oil, he bought it new and maintained it well. There was no visible smoking out the tail pipe nor was there any blow by. Disconnecting the PCV valve lines you could not see any oil collecting in them.
I once followed him for quite aways on the freeway so high speeds and all. Not a wisp of oil smoke could be seen.
Here in Phoenix where it is HOT looking at a temperature vs viscosity oil chart the light weight oil recommended by the factory is just that, light weight. To me that is not the oil to run on a car driven hard in the heat. As at one point I ran afleet of cars used in service work the drivers were complaining of them running hot and had the fleet change to 20W50 which was compatible with the temperature and the drives quit complaining.
As for me, I did that a long time ago on all my cars.
So we changed to the heavier oil. It did not seem to affect oil consumption any. I really did not expect it to. Living in a winter climate where light oil was a winter oil and something heavier was a summer weight by the time engines got to 100,000 miles if you were getting a 1000 miles to quart you were lucky. Usually at that time it was less than that.
Here in Phoenix I have had cars go 300,000 miles with out oil consumption. But we used an additive and I think it was Z-max or something similar and the next oil change the danged thing quit using oil.
I think what is going on is the oil control ring is sludging up.
I see comments to that on Saturn forums for those who have rebuilt these engines.
The additive may have freed it. Don't know for sure, can't say for sure, but something worked. The last I talked to him about a year ago he was still using the car as a second car and now lived in Tennessee.
I don't think additives on the whole are worth the price of the chemistry inside of them. But every now and then something actually works.
It is not going to hurt to try it.
I personally think todays problems are caused by the stupid decision to recommend a light weight oil with the only benifit being questionable gas mileage improvement as a year around oil and I will not use it.
The weight I choose to use conforms to Viscosity vs Temperature oil recommendation charts rather than the factory recommendation. When I rebuld an engine it goes in with first oil change and when I buy a new car it goes in the same way. A used car gets changed also.
I think on todays catalytic converter cars, some oil consumption is hidden by the catalytic converter burning it out cleanly. That is the only idea I have as to why it can not be seen.
It is only now that I am seeing Saturns laying down oil screens like the old I6 Studebakers used to.

96sc1996 03-07-2011 03:00 PM

my 1996 saturn sl1 burns oil too the final verdict was to add mystery oil or thicker oil???

96sc1996 06-17-2011 12:27 PM


Originally Posted by 96sc1996 (Post 24250)
my 1996 saturn sl1 burns oil too the final verdict was to add mystery oil or thicker oil???

anyone?

scotterichmond 06-17-2011 12:49 PM

I use 10w40 in the winter( we can see single digits) and 20w50 in the summer( triple digits are frequent) I don't believe it is likely you will see "smoke" coming out the talepipe 'cause the cat will clean that up. Well maybe you will if the consumption is massive.

Bottom line........ use 20w50 and see if it helps.I know it won't hurt. :)

so I guess I agree with you uncljohn..... again !

I too believe in what works and old school is still working .

uncljohn 06-18-2011 05:11 AM


Originally Posted by 96sc1996 (Post 24250)
my 1996 saturn sl1 burns oil too the final verdict was to add mystery oil or thicker oil???

The final verdict?
A bit of an understatement probably.
The final verdict is oil consumption is generally caused by excessive wear as a function of high mileage or improper maintainence.
Once wear takes place the only solution is a mechanical rebuild which depending on where and who does it can cost between $1000 and $4000, a number that while realistic, on a car that probably has a value of about the same number is not financially worth it.
The only other option is to slow down the oil consumption by using a heavier weight oil.
As to the pluses and minuses, oil is used to lubricate the engine and when it is extremely cold such as winter time with snow on the ground and freezing temperatures, a heavy weight oil will not flow and lubricate. The engine can be damaged. So you have to use an appropriate weight oil for the application.
During the summer, the opposite is true, when the engine is hot and the temperature is hot, light weight oils are way too thin, do not lubricate well and wear takes place.
Light weight oils can improve fuel economy. How much is open for question because I don't know and don't care. Because the use of a light weigh oil can also cause increased wear. How much? I don't know that either but it seems that on many applications, a car with about 100,000 miles has started to consume a lot of oil to where the the blue smoke can be seen comming out the exhaust.
And if you look at a NASCAR racing motor that costs in the area of $40,000 per engine that will run under extreme duress for about 600 miles and then basically is prone to failure, a light wieght oil might make the difference between 1st or last.
It depends I guess on how much money you have and your objectives.
Mine is not much money and a long lived engine. So I use the heaviest oil the Viscosity vs Temperature charts allow and using modern oils, that is a 20W50 weight oil. There are heavier. Straight weight oils are available up to a straight 50 weight if you can find them.
The problem is the engine is worn out. There is no majic fix.
The next problem is why? And only the curious are looking for a solution.
I am curious, mine Saturn is one of many that do not use any oil at all.
I used a heavier oil than the factory recommendation of 5E20 from the day I bought the car and still do in all my cars.
And as it turns out, most new cars turn into used cars and sold. Very few new car owners drive a high mileage car and most used car buyers pretty much have to take what they get.
A number of people I have talked to lately are saying that it was curious their new cars started using oil just before they sold them or traded them and all of them were using the factory recommended oil weight of 5W20. The factory don't care, the warrenty is over and in the case of Saturn, the factory is over and gone.
It's done whatever the reason.
So to repeat. The only fix is an engine rebuild. The only other option is a heavier oil to slow down consumption.
An additive some times might help depending on circumstances.
I have seen Z-Max help, the assumption is that the oil control ring is stuck due to mileage and for some reason Z-max caused it to loosen.
I use STP to further thicken the oil for my purposes.
If I think I need it.
But on the whole, additives are a waste of money.
In my opinion.
Good luck. It is nice to enjoy a Brand of automobile. I like my 16 year old Saturn Coupe. I own it, it has 2 doors and a sun roof. It all works and is in good shape. To replace it with a new car that does the same for me would be about $40,000 or so. A new Caddy Coupe would be nice. But there is not much inbetween that would work for me. And I can not afford a new Caddy.

winkler91 07-06-2011 12:01 AM

ok so i have oil consumption prob too ... but no leaks or exhaust visual ... sometimes .... bout a quart every two to three weeks ... usin 5w30 sometimes 10w30

uncljohn 07-06-2011 01:21 PM

Pretty much it is a function of time and extended use of what used to be called a winter grade oil, year around. Now that the wear has occured the odds of a "get lucky" repair is about nil. About all you can do is use a heavier oil and depending on where you are a 20W40, a 10W40 or possibly a 20W50 or if the oil consumption is bad enough a straight weight 30, or 40 weight oil. During the summer and something lighter during the winter.
The more I ask around to people who actually own thier cars for a long period of time, the more they are saying that some where around 100k they started to use oil. providing of course that the original factory recomended oil was something like a 5W20 or 30 and that was what was used. There are of course other specific reasons too but in genral the patern has been established.

uncljohn 07-07-2011 03:16 AM

So you are using oil eh? Don't feel alone!
 
:(
Not being able to sleep and bored I did some research on oil consumption. The internet really has a lot of info. on it if you ask it nice, it will actually deliver it to you. The following search was one of them.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
There is plenty of things to read, there were some 31 million results. That should keep some one busy.
Light weight oil in general has the fickle finger of fate pointed at it. Of course that is hedged by saying.
The factory recommended the light wieght oil!
I am sure some where in the 31 million results is the fact the reason the oil was recommended was gasoline mileage is enhanced by light weight oil, while light weight oil used under summer or regional heat on a car driven hard causes premature wear and excessive oil consumption.
Hell of a deal, you get good gas mileage!!!!!
Everyone is happy. Specially the factory! The warrenty is off and they are off the hook.
This brings about a series of solutions to possibly ignore the need to rebuilt the engine.
One of which is to use "high mileage oil" Something that will help high mileage engines.
But probably is little more than a can with words on it that lets people think it is good for the car thus buy it. The purpose of the oil? To remove money from your wallet.
Another is a piston soak.
Done something like pull all spark plugs, pore in any of the following,
SeaFoam (an engine cleaner like many although this has a funny name)
Marvel Mystery Oil (available for years in gallon cans used for general engine cleaning and assored mystery fixes)
A GM supplied top engine cleaner - go read one of the articals, you find the name.
or other stuff.
The purpose? To free up stuck piston rings. Let it soak for 20 min, repeat a second time and then?
Change the oil. All that raspy stuff is not in the crank case disolving sludge and gaskets.
Will it work? It might, if you have stuck piston rings.
But most of the time, the reason for the excessive oil consumption is!!!!!
The light weight oil used for maximum gasoline mileage also causes maximum engine wear as a function of time and use.
I really have not had the problem.
I am old school, when the recommendations came out my initial reaction was the use of the 5W20 oil year around was stupid.
I drive mucho miles and keep cars a long time.
I build them, I restore them and I build my own street racer motors.
Every car I own was changed immediatly to a recommended oil viscosity that comes from a viscosity vs temperature chart that can be found in an owners manual of the car or an Oil Company data sheet.
Similar to any one of these:
http://www.google.com/search?q=engin...w=1348&bih=535
Or if your garage is like mine you have a collection of Motors or Chilton manuals, mine go back to 1936 so I can use them to repair a Marmon, if I had one. And look at the oil recommendation for the same engine over the years.
I am currently building a 350 Chevy V8. An engine that has remarkable interchangability with the first one built in 1955, the infamouse 265 Cu In Power Pack mouse motor, and look up the specks. Most manufactures started recommending a light weight oil all about the same time when gasoline mileage became an EPA issue and a sticker on the window rates estimated mileage.
And warrenties stopped covering them after 30 thousand miles.
A complaint to the dealer that you are using oil after the warrenty is up is generally responded with;
If you are using the factory recommended oil, thus the 5W20 the answer is NOT you are using oil, the oil usage is normal.
What is not being said, is excessive usage of oil is normal when using a light weight oil year around. That is how I blew the engine up in my 1st car in the middle of the summer. That and stupidity.
If you are using excessive oil, the damage has been done.
It is rare that motor fix it in a can can fix anything.
There is a mechanical problem that needs replacement parts because they are worn.
If you catch it in time, oil usage may slow down and may even slow down a lot. By changing to a heavier weight oil
Can't help you, you are not alone. It is now and industry standard.
Sorry about that.
But I do not have the problem in my own cars. I changed to a heavier weight oil on the 1st oil change or if I built a motor I started out with it.
I live where 20W50 is a viable alternative. That is what I use. Except my Chrysler which uses synthetic and I use 15 W 50 and nothing I own uses oil.
Well not true, my Pony Car with a monster engine does, but I let the heads sit on the shelf too long before I installed them and the valve umbrellas dried out, so it is sucking oil through the valve guides.
But oil is cheap compared to taking it apart.
So I do not worry about it.
:eek:

scotterichmond 07-07-2011 09:57 AM

Uncljohn................. even though your comments are ... well..... long and wordy, I have to say a great big AMEN to all you had to say (and yes I did read it all).
I too follow the old school though of ? Why is there oil in the engine? oh , yeah to lube stuff and reduce friction. and a by product of less friction is less wear AND less heat. All I can add is more viscosity = less friction. That being said there is a balance that needs to be reached. You can get TOO thick. I once ran 90 w gear oil ( 50/50 with 30 w) to postpone the inevitable overhaul. I got about year out of her.

Well thats enough beating that dead horse.

uncljohn 07-08-2011 04:04 AM

Scotterichmond says: You can get TOO thick. I once ran 90 w gear oil ( 50/50 with 30 w) to postpone the inevitable overhaul. I got about year out of her.
============================
Well yuh! You sure can when you get carried away with things but not if you follow an Oil Viscosity vs Temperature oil usage chart. A simple and effective solution.
I dunno what was in the mind of the manufacture, unless of course it was some one in marketing, some clueless sole who looked at the specs and said "Wow, here is a way to market gasoline mileage and it won't hurt us. By the time the luckless customer figures out there is a problem, the warrentee will be over"
I am sure that Pontiac, Hummer, Oldsmobile, Mercury, Plymouth, DeSoto, Studebaker, Packard ,Nash and Saturn employees are standing in line to thank these people for their decisions.
You remind me of Ken, a fellow I used to work with when we were both a whole lot younger. Ken had a Buick Special convertible with the 215 cu in aluminum V8 in it. Some times referred to as the BOP engine which was sold by GM to Land Rover and became a long time engine option for them and also for MG and has lately become popular as a Hot Rod motor. It's funny about some of the engines GM has made and sold as to how long they stayed in service when used by others while GM has resorted to using engines made by Daewoo as badge engineered or "Corporate Platform" engines while they close their own factories but I digress. Ken's Buick was well used and consumed oil with a healthy apetite. So he would change the oil and add a can of STP a popular at the time Oil Viscosity improver (remember all the Red STP stickers! Stuck almost everywere) and as it consumed oil he would replace it with another can of STP untill the oil filter blew off from excess pressure caused by the now real heavy weight oil. STP flowed like Molassas. He would replace the filter and change the oil and the cycle would start again.
I do not seem to remember him buying a new beater so it must have happend for a long time.
If there was an advantage other than he never blew up the engine I lived in the Rust Belt at that time. When a car is covered in oil, it helps prevent rust.
Yuh I do, I just remembered he bought a Chrysler 2DHT eventually beause I had a 4DHT about the same year. His would not get stuck in the snow, mine would get stuck if you tried to run over a postage stamp. 4 Doors had a longer wheelbase and poorer weight distribution which was the secret.
As to long and wordy, some times short answers have no value OR it helps to sleep better!

scotterichmond 07-08-2011 09:45 AM

no insult meant, just lots of reading to do . Sorry if I came across that way.

JoshKava 07-14-2011 09:39 PM

stuck oil ring
 
I just wanted to note IF it has to do with your rings being stuck there is a product called "Seafoam" it's a treatment for engine internals and fuel system, I had a motorcycle that wouldn't idle and would chug... added 1/2 can to tank of gas in about 2 min of running the idle kicked up and purrddd like a kitten, so since then I use it in everything and it's safe for all the o2 sensors , throttle bodies etc. etc. :cool:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:18 PM.


© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands