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-   -   2001 Saturn SP1 Won't Start (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/saturn-s-series-sedan-27/2001-saturn-sp1-wont-start-3151/)

dougporter 04-12-2009 07:18 PM

2001 Saturn SP1 Won't Start
 
I'm working on a 2001 Saturn SL1. The engine turns over but will not start. The battery is good (a little over 12 volts). It's getting fuel because you can smell the fumes but it won't start. Checked the ignition coils. They were below 8,000 ohms. They were replaced. Check the power to the ignition module and that's fine. Also, checked the crank position sensor and that was reading 771 ohms. That's within the range. The 4 codes received from the Actron scan tool are P0341 (camshaft position sensor A bank 1), P0732 (gear 2 ratio incorrect), P0733 (gear 3 ratio incorrect) and P0734 (gear 4 ratio incorrect). Any ideas on what the issue is?

derf 04-12-2009 07:25 PM

did you just do an engine, tranny, or PCM swap?

dougporter 04-12-2009 07:32 PM

None of those have been done.

A little background: Around the end of January, the ignition module was replaced. A couple of weeks after that, the car started but it turned off right away when it was being back up. It started up again and it was driven for about 5 miles. It sat for a few hours and it wouldn't start after that.

derf 04-12-2009 07:50 PM

when did the SES light come on during all of this?

Have you recently replaced the valve body in the transmission?

dougporter 04-12-2009 08:09 PM

The SES light was on when I used the scan tool. No, the value body was not replaced.

derf 04-12-2009 08:18 PM

P0341 --- cam position sensor
S cars don't have one. Usually an issue with coil packs or DIS (ignition module).
However, you stated that the coil packs were replaced, and that the CPS is within spec.

Pull all 4 plug wires at the coil packs and crank the engine -- you should see arcing across each coil pack. If you don't, I would suspect CPS (or DIS module.)

CPS on these cars often have a slow intermittent death--but without a functioning crank position sensor you get NO Spark.
_________
Tranny codes --you may wish to check the electrical connection at the top of the valve body, and the underhood junction box fuses. But I suggest we get the vehicle running first and see after that if they are real or spurious (they may have been triggered by another electrical fault condition that was present).

derf 04-12-2009 08:32 PM

Also -- have you tried jump starting the vehicle to rule out marginal battery and possible alternator issues?

dougporter 04-12-2009 08:38 PM

The Crank Position sensor tested in the normal range and the ignition module was replaced before the problem started. It was replaced a 2nd time because we thought it was faulty. New coil packs were put on because they were tested under 8000 ohms. 3 out of 4 spark plug wires tested at good range. The 4th (shortest one) was not giving a reading at all. I figured it was too short to give a resistance reading.

dougporter 04-12-2009 08:39 PM

Yes regarding the jump start. The battery tested good at above 12 volts.

derf 04-12-2009 09:31 PM

Sounds like bad plug wire to me. If it gave no reading (infinite resistance) then it is an open circuit and you are running on three cylinders. Make sure the ends are free of corrosion where you're testing it.

Replace the plug wires (just do the whole set since you are not likely to get a single).

And please do the coil spark test I mentioned - this will confirm spark (you have confirmed fuel) and rule out the CPS as the issue.

dougporter 04-15-2009 09:28 PM

Hi - I just finished putting on all new wires and they still won't spark.

I tested the voltage at the white wire OF THE 6 pin connector to the ignition module and it's 1.01 volts. It suppose to be 1 volt or less. I also tested the resistance of the same white wire and it's 1.138 ohms. I'm not sure if I had the multimeter at the proper setting.. it set to it's lowest setting. It was either the lowest setting or 200k setting that gave me a reading. The book says that it is suppose to be above 200 ohms.

derf 04-16-2009 05:55 AM

You still have not indicated if you have performed the spark test at the coils (sigh)

I will infer from the fact that "the new wires will not spark" means there is no spark anywhere.

Change the Crank position sensor. The resistance reading may be in spec, but if the pulses to the PCM are distorted or malformed, NO SPARK.

dougporter 04-16-2009 07:15 AM

For the spark test, using the noid light, I disconnected each wire and there was no spark.

I'll change the Crank position sensor this evening. I'll let you know how that goes. Thanks.

dougporter 04-19-2009 11:22 AM

I changed the Crank Position Sensor and it still doesn't start. Any other suggestions?

derf 04-19-2009 04:10 PM

Have you checked IGN fuses under the hood ?

dougporter 04-25-2009 08:41 AM

Yes. They are fine.

derf 04-25-2009 03:41 PM

are you using stock saturn coil packs and stock Saturn DIS module?

dougporter 04-28-2009 03:52 PM

No. I was thinking that's the problem. It's not recognizing the new parts since they are not Saturn stock.

dougporter 05-06-2009 07:56 PM

I was wondering if not using Saturn parts could be the problem. I also found a TSB on ALLDATA regarding the same problem-crank no start. I haven't read the whole thing yet,but it states the cause is "intermittent battry cable or ground connection nay eventually lead to a PCM class 2 caommunication failure". I was wondering if this could be another possible cause in my case?


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