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-   -   2001 Saturn S series cranks but no start (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/saturn-s-series-sedan-27/2001-saturn-s-series-cranks-but-no-start-12868/)

LarryT Sep 19, 2023 09:56 PM

2001 Saturn S series cranks but no start
 
Car sets a lot but I start it about every two weeks. Last try, it had a dead battery - very unusual - always starts right-up. After charging it would crank but not start. Try to get scan codes but would not connect. So started typical test for fuel. No fuel pump sound and noticed fuel gauge showing empty, so added a few gallons - gauge still empty and still no pump sound. Checked pump relay still clicking and test point labeled "fuel probe" still has 12V when key first turned to run. Apparently there is no inertia switch, so ruled that out.
My question, is there another connector between the pump relay and the tank?
(I've had a connector problem between the relay and tank on a F150 pickup that acted like this.)

Also, where can I get a schematic for a 2001 Saturn?

LarryT Sep 19, 2023 11:03 PM

Introduction
 
I guess I should have started with an introduction.
I'm an old "shade-tree Mechanic" from 14 years old to today at 74 years old
I have ten cars, at last count (recently sold my '69 El Camino (project car) to my 15 year old grandson).
I've worked on every part of a car, except an automatic transmission (and that is on my list).
Just finishing the partial restoration of a 1964 Corvair. Not my oldest car.
Kinda partial to GM cars but I also have two Ford pickups, '94 and '97
Lots more but I'll stop here...

derf Sep 20, 2023 05:58 AM

Model? S and L cars both existed in 2001.

LarryT Sep 20, 2023 09:24 AM

Model S - 1.9L

derf Sep 21, 2023 09:00 AM

SL, SL1, SL2, SC1, SC2? Will potentially make a difference for schematics.

Do you have fuel pressure at the Schrader valve in the fuel line under the hood near the throttle body?

Do you have spark?

Sounds like no power to the fuel pump.

If
No fuel pressure at rail
HAS spark (rules out CKP)

MAY be an issue with a burnt power distribution pin in the instrument panel junction box (IPJB). On a third generation S car that would be pin F5.

Don't remember off the top of my head, but the cigarette lighter and dome light and fuel pump are all connected to and receive power from F5. Using the lighter socket with a phone charger will contribute to overheating that pin. So will piggybacking off of that circuit, as it was never designed for long-term medium current usage.

Anyway, here is a link to a description of the issue and how to address if this is in fact the problem.

Fixing the F5 Issue (No power in fusebox to chime, dome light, fuel pump) - SaturnFans.com Forums

I'm thinking your battery went dead because the dome light was left on or a phone charger had been left plugged in for a long time. Even if there is no phone attached it is still drawing current.

If neither of those two work now while your fuel pump is not working, this is most likely the problem, however, it is possible for the others to stay connected and the fuel pump becomes disconnected at F5.


LarryT Sep 22, 2023 08:40 PM

I spent some time on my Saturn today, new info, so disregard most of my earlier comments.

First, no fuel at pressure test valve under the hood - that has not changed.
Fuel gauge still at zero and I know the tank is full - also not changed.
Measured voltage on both ends of all fuses inside the console area - no change.
except "fpump" fuse has no battery voltage
Test Point for pump has only mili-Volts (I may have miss-read this as 12-Volts earlier)
Code scanner still not connecting - stops at "KWP 2000"
I still think I'm feel the pump relay click but I'm questioning that now because of the following:

I very carefully shorted across the pump relay socket pins and the pump runs
and afterwords there is fuel pressure at the test-point under the hood (not measured but significant)
But there is still no sign of starting when it cranks??? so I guess there is no power to the coils and/or the injectors,
haven't yet probed which. Don't have someone to turn key while I probe those two.

So, I started trying the security reset (again) - I have a very worn key and a newer key - tried with both - with no success.
The security dash light stays lit thru all 10-minute "Run" cycles with either key, for multiple three 10-minute cycles.
(the security light does go off in cranking, about 2-seconds in.) I do have battery charger on, thru all cycling.
Some where I read it should go out before the 10-minutes ends. ???
I cleaned the contacts on the PCM (under the hood with contact cleaner spray, let dry - but no change.

BTW all interior functions work - Door locks work with door button and remote, key chime works (to irritation levels), Lighter works as well.
Just thought, I have not tried to set off the alarm - I'll try that tomorrow.
I did inspect the back of the power distribution/fuse box inside console - didn't see any melted or burned pins.

Question - is there any detail to resetting the security? (I've done similar on other cars and it is temperamental)
like: door must be closed, time in run must be exactly 10-minutes, sequence of RUN time to wait time OFF before CRANK, ...
(I've not been tuning RUN off after no-start and the start of next 10-minute RUN time.)

Or am I totally of track here????


LarryT Sep 22, 2023 08:58 PM

It is SL1 model

02 LW300 Sep 22, 2023 09:04 PM

Derf will have the correct security protocol for your S. My L requires a starter bump then wait until the security light turns off. Turn the key off and repeat. Repeat this procedure three times. If security was the issue the car will start on the fourth try.

LarryT Oct 6, 2023 05:41 PM

if the code scanner will not connect thru the OBD2, is it likely the BCM is bad?

02 LW300 Oct 6, 2023 11:20 PM

Code readers only look at emission codes. I have a red brick Snap-on scanner that works on most cars until 2004. I have a code reader with ABS for my 06 Navigator. I can also borrow a new Snap-on scanner if needed from work. You will not be able to access a BCM with a code reader.


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