Saturn L200 won't start. Battery? Security?
#1
05-23-2016, 01:56 PM
Saturn L200 won't start. Battery? Security?
Our family has a 2002 L200 that sat much of the winter without being started and now won't start. 
Battery appears pretty low or dead.
However, I tried jumping it to just get it to at least start (to see what condition it is in) to prove it still runs well...
With the jumper cables on, the Saturn's lights and dash go on, the power door locks work, and the security alarm goes on loud...but the car won't start. When I turn the key, the dash changes signals and some hum sound is present, but the engine doesn't crank whatsoever. Not even an attempt. The key does nothing.
The fob on the key chain no longer is opening the door locks...or doing anything at all. The little red LED light on the fob comes on, blinking when pressed, suggesting it has battery power to send the signal to the car, but nothing happens. This car also had automatic starting from the fob, but that also doesn't work anymore.
I'm wondering if I can't start the car because the security passlock is on and the fob is no longer inactivating it. This was not my car and I'm not familiar with how to start it with this security.
I tried to reset the passlock using advice from an online Saturn forum: I put the key in to run, momentarily to start, then back to run, waited 10 minutes until the "Security" indicator went off, then did that a total of three times. But after that procedure, I still couldn't start the car in any way. The "Security" lighted words on the dash remain when I try.
Could the battery running to zero over the winter cause the security system to "lose memory" and therefore no longer recognize the fob--or the key itself? Why isn't the reset procedure working?
What else can I try to get the car to start? It had been running PERFECTLY this fall engine-wise, was well taken care of, and had started probably in January or February last. It also had gas in the tank. 70k miles. VERY Well-maintained.
We REALLY need help here, as the car--our late mother's--is in limbo, and my sister wants to take ownership of it, but we need to get it on the road as a first step, since we also may have some BCM or PCM work to inquire about after that, and need to know if we are keeping or selling. We also have to re-register it pronto, etc..
Please help! Thank you!!
Battery appears pretty low or dead.However, I tried jumping it to just get it to at least start (to see what condition it is in) to prove it still runs well...
With the jumper cables on, the Saturn's lights and dash go on, the power door locks work, and the security alarm goes on loud...but the car won't start. When I turn the key, the dash changes signals and some hum sound is present, but the engine doesn't crank whatsoever. Not even an attempt. The key does nothing.
The fob on the key chain no longer is opening the door locks...or doing anything at all. The little red LED light on the fob comes on, blinking when pressed, suggesting it has battery power to send the signal to the car, but nothing happens. This car also had automatic starting from the fob, but that also doesn't work anymore.
I'm wondering if I can't start the car because the security passlock is on and the fob is no longer inactivating it. This was not my car and I'm not familiar with how to start it with this security.
I tried to reset the passlock using advice from an online Saturn forum: I put the key in to run, momentarily to start, then back to run, waited 10 minutes until the "Security" indicator went off, then did that a total of three times. But after that procedure, I still couldn't start the car in any way. The "Security" lighted words on the dash remain when I try.
Could the battery running to zero over the winter cause the security system to "lose memory" and therefore no longer recognize the fob--or the key itself? Why isn't the reset procedure working?
What else can I try to get the car to start? It had been running PERFECTLY this fall engine-wise, was well taken care of, and had started probably in January or February last. It also had gas in the tank. 70k miles. VERY Well-maintained.
We REALLY need help here, as the car--our late mother's--is in limbo, and my sister wants to take ownership of it, but we need to get it on the road as a first step, since we also may have some BCM or PCM work to inquire about after that, and need to know if we are keeping or selling. We also have to re-register it pronto, etc..
Please help! Thank you!!
#2
05-23-2016, 02:10 PM
First things first before jumping to conclusions. Take the battery out, take it to your local auto parts store and have it load tested. Odds are that it's completely dead. Sitting over the winter probably killed it. Get a NEW battery, put it in and I'll bet you the car will start. Just because you tried to jump it and it didn't start, doesn't mean that the battery is not the problem. The quality of your cables, the condition of the battery in the Saturn and even corrosion on the battery cables can come into play here. Start with the simple things first.
#3
05-23-2016, 09:22 PM
I agree with Rubehayseed. But before buying a new battery, you may want to try cleaning the terminals on the current battery and charging it from a battery charger. Starting a car take a lot more amps than merely running the lights etc. With the jumper cables attached, you may have had enough of a connection to the good battery to run the lights but not nearly enough for the amps needed to turn the starter and the engine.
#4
05-23-2016, 10:21 PM
First things first before jumping to conclusions. Take the battery out, take it to your local auto parts store and have it load tested. Odds are that it's completely dead. Sitting over the winter probably killed it. Get a NEW battery, put it in and I'll bet you the car will start.
So, what I'm saying is that's a good point about the dead battery, but will I be prevented from starting this car even with a good battery due to the security system? (Since I can't get it to realize I have the legitimate key to this car).
#5
05-24-2016, 07:38 AM
Good points. I can't honestly answer them as I'm NOT a mechanic and the electronics on todays car are well beyond my comprehensive understanding. I'm bowing out of this one early as I can't tell you anything about the security system or how it even begins to work. So, if I can't tell you anything to try, I'm going to be silent on the matter and hope that someone that understands these dang complicated, computer operated vehicles can elaborate. Good luck with it.
#6
05-24-2016, 10:53 AM
My 2002 Lw does not have programmed keys. I think the system works like my daughter's 97 Buick system worked. It has to have a correct cut key but there is no chip in the key. I do not have a remote start function. If I trip the alarm the horn blows, there is no siren. It sounds like you have an aftermarket overlay theft system giving you grief.
Something like "Car Toys" installs.
Just my opinion.
Something like "Car Toys" installs.
Just my opinion.
#7
05-24-2016, 10:18 PM
Clearly from an original GM Service Document; found it on the web
GREAT Passlock Description -- hope it helps
Per 02 LW300, indeed sounds like aftermarket alarm involved. May need to disconnect to troubleshoot. Don't know what they did.
___________________
2002 Saturn L100/L200/LW200
Theft Systems Description and Operation
The Passlock™ system is a vehicle theft deterrent system which deters drive-away vehicle theft by disabling the engine operation if the ignition lock cylinder is not rotated with the proper mechanically cut key.
The Passlock™ system is made up of
1) an ignition lock assembly
2) Passlock™ sensor
3) body control module (BCM)
4) instrument panel cluster (IPC)
5) either a powertrain control module (PCM) for L61 engines, or an engine control module (ECM) for L81 engines.
Ignition Lock Assembly
The ignition lock cylinder contains a magnet mounted on the lock cylinder and a Passlock™ sensor assembly mounted on the ignition module which consists of a security hall effect sensor, a tamper hall effect sensor, and output resistors. A drill proof metal shield is also staked over the sensor housing.
Passlock Sensor
The Passlock™ sensor mounted to the ignition lock cylinder assembly is located inside the upper right side of the steering column. The Passlock™ sensor contains 2 hall effect sensors: a tamper hall effect sensor and a security hall effect sensor. The tamper hall effect sensor is mounted on top of the security hall effect sensor. Should someone attempt to defeat the system by use of magnetic experimentation, the tamper hall effect sensor will activate first.
Body Control Module (BCM)
The BCM has the Passlock™ controller integrated into it which controls the majority of the security systems logic. The BCM reads the data from the Passlock™ sensor continuously. If the data is correct and has been received by the BCM within a specified time, the BCM will send a coded password to the ECM/PCM. The ECM/PCM will then allow the fuel injectors to operate.
PCM/ECM
The ECM is used on the L81 engine applications. The coded password for the security system is sent from the BCM to the ECM via the controller area network (CAN) bus. If the password is correct and received within the specified time, the ECM will allow the fuel injectors to operate.
The PCM is used on L61 engine applications. The coded password for the security system is sent form the BCM to the PCM via the class 2 data link. If the password is correct and received within the specified time, the PCM will allow the fuel injectors to operate.
Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC)
The IPC contains the security telltale.
The security telltale has 3 modes of operation:
a) Off
b) Flashing
c) On
OFF:
Security telltale will be off if:
1) The ignition is in the OFF position.
2) The ignition is in the RUN, START, or ACC position and the security system diagnostics have all passed.
ON:
Security telltale will be on if:
1) The BCM is performing a bulb check at vehicle start.
2) The security system diagnostics have not yet completed at vehicle start.
3) A security system diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is set in the BCM or ECM/PCM. (NOTE: Simple code readers cannot usually read BCM codes)
FLASHING
Security telltale will be flashing if :
1) The tamper hall effect sensor has been triggered.
2) The incorrect Passlock™ sensor data to the BCM for more than 5 seconds during vehicle start.
3) No Passlock™ sensor data has been sent to the BCM for more than 5 seconds during vehicle start.
4) The security telltale will also flash when the content theft system is in the armed mode.
Security System Operation
The Passlock™ system is designed to prevent vehicle operation if the mechanical key is not used to start the vehicle. The mechanical key, in normal operation, will turn the Passlock™ lock cylinder. The Passlock™ sensor, which is mounted to the Passlock™ lock cylinder assembly, sends data by circuit 1836 to the BCM.
The Passlock™ sensor is powered by circuit 812 from the BCM. The Passlock™ sensor is grounded by circuit 1057 to the BCM.
The BCM determines the validity of the Passlock™ sensor data within a preset time window based on the ignition switch input. The BCM will then send a coded password to the ECM by the CAN bus circuit 3204 or PCM by class 2, circuit 1807. When the ECM/PCM receives the correct code, it will allow the fuel injectors to operate normally.
---------------------------------------------------------
Passlock™ Modes
Pass Theft Mode The pass theft mode is normal operation. During a normal start up, the SECURITY telltale will turn on.
The telltale will turn off when:
1) The ignition is turned to the OFF or ACC position
2) The ignition is turned to the START position and a 3 second timer has expired.
'
Short Tamper Mode (Fuel Disable Timer Mode)
The PCM or ECM enters the short tamper mode if the ECM detects an open voltage code, 4.43-5.00 V. The BCM will send out the fuel undecided password to the PCM. The PCM will disable the fuel supply to the engine for 4 seconds. The driver usually observes a start quickly followed by a stall when in the short tamper mode. After 4 seconds a start may again be attempted, except in one situation.
If the PCM/ECM receives the wrong password, for example a new BCM was installed without following the relearn procedure, the security telltale will flash for 4 seconds and remain on, and the fuel injectors will remain disabled until the correct relearn procedure has been completed.
Long Tamper Mode
The BCM enters the long tamper mode if the BCM receives the wrong voltage code at an attempted start. The BCM will then send a disable fuel message to the PCM/ECM. The PCM/ECM will then disable the fuel injectors. The driver experiences the same start quickly followed by a stall.
The fuel will be disabled for 10 minutes and the security telltale will also flash.
Fail Enable Mode
In the fail enable mode, the engine is allowed to run normally because the fault occurred while the engine was running. The security telltale will remain on whenever the engine is running to alert the driver there is a problem with the Passlock™ system and there is no Passlock™ system protection.
The engine can be restarted in the fail enable mode.
Whenever the engine is running, the Passlock™ system constantly monitors itself. The BCM monitors the circuits between itself and the Passlock™ sensor. The BCM and PCM/ECM also monitor each other through the serial data link. If a problem is detected, diagnostic trouble codes will set and the security telltale will be on when the engine is running.
Diagnostic Trouble Codes
In either the short or long tamper mode, the BCM or the PCM/ECM will set diagnostic trouble codes. Each module should be checked for DTCs.
(NOTE: Most simple code scanners cannot read BCM codes)
GREAT Passlock Description -- hope it helps
Per 02 LW300, indeed sounds like aftermarket alarm involved. May need to disconnect to troubleshoot. Don't know what they did.
___________________
2002 Saturn L100/L200/LW200
Theft Systems Description and Operation
The Passlock™ system is a vehicle theft deterrent system which deters drive-away vehicle theft by disabling the engine operation if the ignition lock cylinder is not rotated with the proper mechanically cut key.
The Passlock™ system is made up of
1) an ignition lock assembly
2) Passlock™ sensor
3) body control module (BCM)
4) instrument panel cluster (IPC)
5) either a powertrain control module (PCM) for L61 engines, or an engine control module (ECM) for L81 engines.
Ignition Lock Assembly
The ignition lock cylinder contains a magnet mounted on the lock cylinder and a Passlock™ sensor assembly mounted on the ignition module which consists of a security hall effect sensor, a tamper hall effect sensor, and output resistors. A drill proof metal shield is also staked over the sensor housing.
Passlock Sensor
The Passlock™ sensor mounted to the ignition lock cylinder assembly is located inside the upper right side of the steering column. The Passlock™ sensor contains 2 hall effect sensors: a tamper hall effect sensor and a security hall effect sensor. The tamper hall effect sensor is mounted on top of the security hall effect sensor. Should someone attempt to defeat the system by use of magnetic experimentation, the tamper hall effect sensor will activate first.
Body Control Module (BCM)
The BCM has the Passlock™ controller integrated into it which controls the majority of the security systems logic. The BCM reads the data from the Passlock™ sensor continuously. If the data is correct and has been received by the BCM within a specified time, the BCM will send a coded password to the ECM/PCM. The ECM/PCM will then allow the fuel injectors to operate.
PCM/ECM
The ECM is used on the L81 engine applications. The coded password for the security system is sent from the BCM to the ECM via the controller area network (CAN) bus. If the password is correct and received within the specified time, the ECM will allow the fuel injectors to operate.
The PCM is used on L61 engine applications. The coded password for the security system is sent form the BCM to the PCM via the class 2 data link. If the password is correct and received within the specified time, the PCM will allow the fuel injectors to operate.
Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC)
The IPC contains the security telltale.
The security telltale has 3 modes of operation:
a) Off
b) Flashing
c) On
OFF:
Security telltale will be off if:
1) The ignition is in the OFF position.
2) The ignition is in the RUN, START, or ACC position and the security system diagnostics have all passed.
ON:
Security telltale will be on if:
1) The BCM is performing a bulb check at vehicle start.
2) The security system diagnostics have not yet completed at vehicle start.
3) A security system diagnostic trouble code (DTC) is set in the BCM or ECM/PCM. (NOTE: Simple code readers cannot usually read BCM codes)
FLASHING
Security telltale will be flashing if :
1) The tamper hall effect sensor has been triggered.
2) The incorrect Passlock™ sensor data to the BCM for more than 5 seconds during vehicle start.
3) No Passlock™ sensor data has been sent to the BCM for more than 5 seconds during vehicle start.
4) The security telltale will also flash when the content theft system is in the armed mode.
Security System Operation
The Passlock™ system is designed to prevent vehicle operation if the mechanical key is not used to start the vehicle. The mechanical key, in normal operation, will turn the Passlock™ lock cylinder. The Passlock™ sensor, which is mounted to the Passlock™ lock cylinder assembly, sends data by circuit 1836 to the BCM.
The Passlock™ sensor is powered by circuit 812 from the BCM. The Passlock™ sensor is grounded by circuit 1057 to the BCM.
The BCM determines the validity of the Passlock™ sensor data within a preset time window based on the ignition switch input. The BCM will then send a coded password to the ECM by the CAN bus circuit 3204 or PCM by class 2, circuit 1807. When the ECM/PCM receives the correct code, it will allow the fuel injectors to operate normally.
---------------------------------------------------------
Passlock™ Modes
Pass Theft Mode The pass theft mode is normal operation. During a normal start up, the SECURITY telltale will turn on.
The telltale will turn off when:
1) The ignition is turned to the OFF or ACC position
2) The ignition is turned to the START position and a 3 second timer has expired.
'
Short Tamper Mode (Fuel Disable Timer Mode)
The PCM or ECM enters the short tamper mode if the ECM detects an open voltage code, 4.43-5.00 V. The BCM will send out the fuel undecided password to the PCM. The PCM will disable the fuel supply to the engine for 4 seconds. The driver usually observes a start quickly followed by a stall when in the short tamper mode. After 4 seconds a start may again be attempted, except in one situation.
If the PCM/ECM receives the wrong password, for example a new BCM was installed without following the relearn procedure, the security telltale will flash for 4 seconds and remain on, and the fuel injectors will remain disabled until the correct relearn procedure has been completed.
Long Tamper Mode
The BCM enters the long tamper mode if the BCM receives the wrong voltage code at an attempted start. The BCM will then send a disable fuel message to the PCM/ECM. The PCM/ECM will then disable the fuel injectors. The driver experiences the same start quickly followed by a stall.
The fuel will be disabled for 10 minutes and the security telltale will also flash.
Fail Enable Mode
In the fail enable mode, the engine is allowed to run normally because the fault occurred while the engine was running. The security telltale will remain on whenever the engine is running to alert the driver there is a problem with the Passlock™ system and there is no Passlock™ system protection.
The engine can be restarted in the fail enable mode.
Whenever the engine is running, the Passlock™ system constantly monitors itself. The BCM monitors the circuits between itself and the Passlock™ sensor. The BCM and PCM/ECM also monitor each other through the serial data link. If a problem is detected, diagnostic trouble codes will set and the security telltale will be on when the engine is running.
Diagnostic Trouble Codes
In either the short or long tamper mode, the BCM or the PCM/ECM will set diagnostic trouble codes. Each module should be checked for DTCs.
(NOTE: Most simple code scanners cannot read BCM codes)
#8
05-24-2016, 11:43 PM
So the engine will crank but get no fuel if the factory anti theft thinks the car is being messed with. If your car won't crank it is the battery or the aftermarket system causing problems. Look in the glovebox for literature on your remote start system.
#9
05-24-2016, 11:46 PM
Also, this sounds like maybe good news:
2002 Saturn L100/L200/LW200
The Passlock™ system is a vehicle theft deterrent system which deters drive-away vehicle theft by disabling the engine operation if the ignition lock cylinder is not rotated with the proper mechanically cut key.
The Passlock™ system is a vehicle theft deterrent system which deters drive-away vehicle theft by disabling the engine operation if the ignition lock cylinder is not rotated with the proper mechanically cut key.
#10
05-24-2016, 11:49 PM
If the battery is really dead, would I see this behavior? Like the car is jumping it enough to get the lights on, but not enough to get the engine to even try to crank?