|
Lose CPS pig tail Miss fire??
When I replaced the CPS I broke the lock or keeper on the CPS pigtail. I reconnected it and wrapped it with electrical tape. OK, 6 months later and no start again. Would the CPS pig tail coming lose but not completely off yet cause an engine miss fire condition?
|
It could... with only tape holding the pigtail it could lose connection as you drive... you need to figure out a more secure way to attach the plug (cable tie perhaps?) |
I saw a crimp on replacement pig tail when I bought the new CPS. I will order one.
|
I replace harness connectors often. Sometimes the complete harness. |
OK we tried the CPS and it is connected. Guess my securing the pig tail worked. It started when it was cold and ran for 5 seconds and died again. Battery is good. Fuel rail has pressure at the valve. Released the gas, cranked it a few and the pressure came back. Since I disconnected the battery to get the starter out it cleared any codes. Code reader says NO CODES. What now?
|
That depends.
What were the codes before you disconnected the battery? Pxxxx Bxxxx Uxxxx format, please. Also, what's the security light doing before cranking, when cranking, and while it's running for the five seconds? |
I cant remember the number but it was for misfire cylinder 3. It stumbled now and again but it ran OK most of the time. Then it got a really bad miss and died. I was not in the car to see the security light. I will try it again today and post it. Thanks.
|
I read back through all your posts and I would start the diagnostic process again. Go back to hard start/no start basic tests. First battery condition, next compression test. Then spark plug condition and fuel pressure. Number three missfire may be coil pack but they usually start with a number four missfire due to design. I have an L61 that will long crank and not start if the fuel level gets too low. It wil start on the next crank attempt. Let us know what you find. |
That would be P0303.
as long as P0300 (random misfire) did not also come up at the same time, the ECM has likely correctly diag d at least part of the issue.but as always, you have to figure out why. I drove an s car for 9 months on 3 cylinders while saving up for a replacement engine. It was of course low on power and vibrated like hell at idle, but in never just stopped running. An L61 in an ion is not the same as an LL0 DOHC in an s car but I would think it could run roughly on 3 cyls, even if the 4 is dead (zero compression) as in my case. The fact that it reproducibly starts then dies (or am I misunderstanding) implies there is combustion in at least some of the cylinders. As Andy suggested previously TWICE, do a compression check across all four cylinders and report the results here. Remember to do it at wide open throttle. Do loan a tool from AutoZone or similar if you don't have a compression tester. The check engine light should have been flashing if you were driving around with an actively misfiring engine. Security woes may also result in the start and stall behavior. Security issues will NOT account for the misfire. I've supplied the above as supplemental background info. Please follow Andy's recommendation above to restart troubleshooting and please include the compression check sooner rather than later. Andy has 40 years of experience over me and has hands on experience with the L61 engine in your car. I do not. Please follow HIS lead. |
OK. Let me clear up some of the things I said.
It was running fine and starting fine but had an occasional bump or miss. By occasional I mean you could drive it to the store and it wouldn't miss at all or you could be at a stop light and feel it miss 5 or 6 times. It started missing and stumbling a lot one morning and then just died. I thought it may have been the CPS connector off again but it was fine. I tried to start it a minute ago and cranks but no start. The check engine is off and the security light acts like it always did. Comes on when you turn on the key but goes out. No blinking after you crank it. I disconnected the battery the other day to remove the starter and check the CPS. It was fine. Put it all back together and cranked it, it started and ran for about 3 seconds and died again. Hasn't started since. Battery seems fine. Codes. 300 303 don't remember which but we looked it up and said misfire. Also P0420, catalyst. I was told if you hit the gas and it runs strong the cat may need changing but it wont cause a no start. It ran great when you put it to the floor. Fuel rail has pressure at the shrader valve when released. Turn the key off and on pressure is back. |
Try a shot of starting fluid into the throttle body and see if it runs for a couple seconds. It sounds like the fuel pump may be failing. The fuel pumps are a compound pump the volume part is about 10 psi and the pressure part boosts it to 50 or so. The pressure part fails first and poeple think just because there is some pressure the pump must be ok. |
Its very believable that its fuel. It was running great and I filled it up at an ARCO in a part of town we hardly go to. That's when the miss or bump I spoke of started. Maybe just coincidence but who knows.
I will try the starter fluid tomorrow. Let you know. Thanks. |
Shot starter fluid in the butterfly area twice and nothing at all. Not even a bump. Cranked it three times after each blast and nothing. Battery was charged for a couple hours before.???????
Just tried it again and nothing. I can smell the starter fluid at the rear of the car now. |
Back in the beginning of your original problems I asked if your code reader gave any live data. See if it gives you an rpm reading when cranking. The crank sensor is the only rpm sensor, the cam sensor is synthesized by the ignition module based on coil ouput to determine where #1 is. |
I don't remember seeing a live data option. Its a pretty basic reader. I will look again tomorrow. Its amazing all whats going on in these newer cars. Still air fuel and spark but not like I learned it.
Thanks again |
No live data function. Do you suspect the crank sensor again? I can remove it and bench check it if you tell me how.
I watched a video on checking the crank sensor. It said 2K ohms I read 700. It did seem to create an AC voltage when I waved a knife past it. |
I am working 10s with an hour commute each way until Feb 1 straight through. I won’t be much help until then . |
OK. Be safe.
|
We tried everything. First we sprayed the starter fluid in the air cleaner, nothing.We installed a new crank sensor, nothing.We put in a new ICM, nothing.Checked all the fuses and moved the similar relays around, jumped the battery, Nothing.
Both times the problems started with a full tank of gas. Fill up #1 started the miss. Fill up #2 with premium, because we thought we got bad gas, that's when it totally died. The engine cranks good. You can hear it turning and see the engine move so I say the chain is connected. It ran great right before the miss started and was still running strong with a miss when it died. We are lost. Might have to bite the bullet and bring it to a shop. |
Have you removed the spark plugs and checked the compression yet? I bought an L200 with a stretched chain and low enough compression to not start and run. It cranked like it had good compression so until I checked with a gauge I dismissed that as a possibility. |
Try it without a full tank of gas. Ya never know, right? I'd drain out about 5 gallons and try it. It MIGHT be a venting problem. IDK, just guessing.
|
Still haven't done a compression test?
Please perform one or have someone do it for you before posting for future guidance. We can't help you if you won't help yourself..... |
It takes 4 thing to start an engine. Spark, fuel, air and compression. You HAVE to check all of them.
|
Originally Posted by 02 LW300
(Post 61599)
Have you removed the spark plugs and checked the compression yet? I bought an L200 with a stretched chain and low enough compression to not start and run. It cranked like it had good compression so until I checked with a gauge I dismissed that as a possibility. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sat...6bbda6d9dd.jpg Finally got some good weather out here. Did a compression check and virtually nothing. Maybe 30. Verified the gauge on my Civic and it read 180. Removed the valve cover and the chain is connected looks good and has about 1/2 inch play between the top gears. |
If the chain is intact but loose you may have got lucky. Are all 4 at 30 or are any at 0? If they are all at 30 you can probably install a chain and guide kit and get your engine back running. Are you up to a timing chain job on this car? It requires patience and a repair manual. The driver’s side engine mount and the belt tensioner needs to come off to get the front cover off. I can see from your picture that your cams are out of time. |
Going left to right first was 30 initially then nothing. All others were very low. That's why I pulled the plugs and tested the Civic. To see if the gauge was OK. It tested 180. I will test again tomorrow but its not looking good is it?
|
Do you have compressed air? Zero means bent valves, anything over that is good news. I have a leak down tester that blows air into each cylinder the check leakage. I removed the chain and turned the cams to close the valves and aired up the cylinders. I verified no bent valves on all cylinders then installed a new chain kit. If you have bent valves it is just more work but it is worth repairing if it is a nice car. |
Checked all cylinders again. Looking at the engine from the front of the car I assume the #1 is far right. If so #1 and #4 have 15 PSI and #2 and 3 have zero. The chain moves the cams and it seems tight. The marks on the cam gears line up at 10 and 2 o'clock. How could it jump time if the chain is tight?
|
You said there is a half inch of play in the chain between the gears. That is how the cams got out of time. The intake and the exhaust may appear in time with each other but they are not in time with the crank. The valves and the pistons occupy the same space but at a different time in an interference engine like ours. When the chain wears or a guide starts to fail the valves bend where they hit the pistons. Now you have to decide how much money you are willing to put into this car. |
First of all thanks for all the help. So a chain and a valve job. Well that's a project for another day. We have a 69 Roadrunner engine to put together first.
These I understand. Everything is adjustable and easy to get to.If it don't start it might be one of 3 things.The body and interior are done. 383 4 speed with a 500 lift cam, 915 heads, Edelbrock RPM manifold 750 Holley and Doug's headers. Should be fun. Well thanks again and I will try to get in touch with you when we tackle the Saturn. https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sat...58b40b1205.jpg |
Beep beep! Have fun with that Mopar. Andy |
Being an old Mopar man, I'd love to see some more pics of that beautiful 69 Roadrunner! Is that yours or does it belong to a customer?
|
Its ours. I will take some pictures and post them here.
|
|
|
Well there are a few pics of my Roadrunner. It should be a nice dependable cruiser and a hit at the local car shows. Don't see that many around anymore. Everything on these is adjustable and best of all NO DAMN COMPUTERS OR SENSORS. Just got to get motivated to put it together.
Thanks again to all of you that helped with our Saturn. If and when I get motivated to tackle that job I will be in touch. |
Thank you very much for the photos. If I lived anywhere near you, I'd be happy to assist in the assembly of that bad azz ride. You should join allpar.com and post the pics there. It's a Mopar dedicated site and they have some awesome members. I've been one for over 15 years. My oldest brother had a 68 Roadrunner with the 383 Super Commando and I loved that car. He was 16 years older than me and when I was 14, he used to let me drive it. Of course, he was in there with me.
|
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:39 PM. |
© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands