Repl front Sway Bar Bushings -- Words of wisdom?
#1
09-06-2016, 02:14 AM
Repl front Sway Bar Bushings -- Words of wisdom?
Can't wait to tackle this.
I spent the better part of 1 hour removing the right front LCA, with the majority of the time spent getting the damn bolt out of the frame to LCA mounting hole.
It'd be a 2 min job if they left enough space in there to get a tool in there to tap it out from inside the hole and if there wasn't so much lateral stress on it.
I then proceeded to struggle quite ridiculously to singlehandedly to install the replacement LCA. There options are few, so here I am leaning my entire body weight inward against the base of the ball joint trying to shove the LCA to frame hole into alignment w the frame. With the car on a minilift. With blocks between to hit only the frame.
I get it almost aligned after about 15 seconds of full body effort, then grab the bolt w my right hand, only to realize I'm using my left shoulder and can't reach to put the thing in place.
These LCAs have become harder to do over the years, and this moron has finally figured out why by himself.
As it stands now, the LCA to frame connection is nearly impossible without brute force. This was not true 7 years ago when I replaced it myself in my garage on jackstands.
The front edge of the LCA that fits into the slot in the frame is protruding outwards. It always did, but was never this hard to replace. But why?
Because the sway bar bushings have become too compressed against the frame, shifting the whole sway bar towards the back of the car --on both sides. Because the end of the sway bar mounts to the LCA through an angled hole (since the sway bar is on an angle relative to the rest of the vehicle), compression of the back side of those fittings is enough to push the whole control arm backwards just enough to **** the LCA to frame angle and cause the mess I went through.
So I need to replace the sway bar bushings and redo the LCAs b c I will not be able to get the sway bar to move inside the LCA bushings because there is too much lateral tension. I have been trying to sort out alignment/tracking issues for many years on this vehicle -- including a caster adjustment that was probably compensating for this issue.
NOTE TO OTHERS: get em while they last. Amazon. None at RockAuto.
------------------------
So. words of wisdom?
I read a long time ago that you are supposed to mark the bushing holders on both sides before you start, and that you need to get them back in the same exact places to ensure the even distribution of stiffness at both front wheels.
I could not tell if the ones I purchased were split. I'm assuming they are as anything else would be idiotic. I'd like to do one side at a time but to do so I'll have to completely remove one bushing clamp and bushing w/o bending the bushing clamp on the other side. I suppose that beats trying to relocate two of these bastards simultaneously.
Parts arriving nest week.
Any hints/pointers appreciated.
I spent the better part of 1 hour removing the right front LCA, with the majority of the time spent getting the damn bolt out of the frame to LCA mounting hole.
It'd be a 2 min job if they left enough space in there to get a tool in there to tap it out from inside the hole and if there wasn't so much lateral stress on it.
I then proceeded to struggle quite ridiculously to singlehandedly to install the replacement LCA. There options are few, so here I am leaning my entire body weight inward against the base of the ball joint trying to shove the LCA to frame hole into alignment w the frame. With the car on a minilift. With blocks between to hit only the frame.
I get it almost aligned after about 15 seconds of full body effort, then grab the bolt w my right hand, only to realize I'm using my left shoulder and can't reach to put the thing in place.
These LCAs have become harder to do over the years, and this moron has finally figured out why by himself.
As it stands now, the LCA to frame connection is nearly impossible without brute force. This was not true 7 years ago when I replaced it myself in my garage on jackstands.
The front edge of the LCA that fits into the slot in the frame is protruding outwards. It always did, but was never this hard to replace. But why?
Because the sway bar bushings have become too compressed against the frame, shifting the whole sway bar towards the back of the car --on both sides. Because the end of the sway bar mounts to the LCA through an angled hole (since the sway bar is on an angle relative to the rest of the vehicle), compression of the back side of those fittings is enough to push the whole control arm backwards just enough to **** the LCA to frame angle and cause the mess I went through.
So I need to replace the sway bar bushings and redo the LCAs b c I will not be able to get the sway bar to move inside the LCA bushings because there is too much lateral tension. I have been trying to sort out alignment/tracking issues for many years on this vehicle -- including a caster adjustment that was probably compensating for this issue.
NOTE TO OTHERS: get em while they last. Amazon. None at RockAuto.
------------------------
So. words of wisdom?
I read a long time ago that you are supposed to mark the bushing holders on both sides before you start, and that you need to get them back in the same exact places to ensure the even distribution of stiffness at both front wheels.
I could not tell if the ones I purchased were split. I'm assuming they are as anything else would be idiotic. I'd like to do one side at a time but to do so I'll have to completely remove one bushing clamp and bushing w/o bending the bushing clamp on the other side. I suppose that beats trying to relocate two of these bastards simultaneously.
Parts arriving nest week.
Any hints/pointers appreciated.
Last edited by derf; 09-06-2016 at 02:19 AM.
#2
09-21-2016, 08:07 AM
Appreciate all the input -- saved me a bunch of time.
Replaced the front sway bar bushings yesterday.
There is A LOT of tension stored in that bar by holding it down with the bushings and brackets. A partially loaded spring of sorts. But it positions the ends of the sway bar, which pass though and bolt to each control arm, such that there is minimal induced rotational twisting of the control arm itself, theoretically allowing freer movement of the control arm at the frame end attachment (horizontal bolt) and presumably at the ball joints as well. The steering wheel even ended up rotated 45 deg clockwise relative to the start of the day---which was fine since it has been about 90 out since the control arm replacement (we loosened just about everything.....
The toe had been way out since the last control arm replacement and I had grown tired of holding the steering wheel for the main purpose of keeping the vehicle from diving into the ditch on the shoulders, so 1/2 rotation to pull the toe in on the right front and off for a test drive.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE
While still out of alignment, the steering wheel is as free as it's been in about 10 years, which is when I started having problems getting alignments to feel the way a properly aligned vehicle should.
Having presumably removed a static stress that was pinned in place and now evenly redistributed that stress across the swaybar (both bushings removed together the only way to do it), the car steers more freely than it has in a decade.
Now just needs an alignment.
What I've learned (besides how to bring back the proper steering feel and effort to my Satty:
Unless you're Andy or Alpha, you need to ask questions.
I tried to do so with the alignment dude who is very good at his job (there are apparently ways to create the required geometry for the end result in stupid ways that will not hold in order to get by--he does not use them), but he didn't seem to have extensive knowledge of the Saturn front suspension. But he freely admitted they rarely work on Saturns (too many hills in area) and especially the s cars.
He did pick out some marginal rear components that I did replace on the 95 SC2 which now drives like a dream. But I had asked him if the front sway bar bushings could be an issue on this car, especially w r t a caster issue on the same wheel I did the control arm on (afterwards) but he did not want to commit.
Anyway, more blabbing after I get an alignment.
Replaced the front sway bar bushings yesterday.
There is A LOT of tension stored in that bar by holding it down with the bushings and brackets. A partially loaded spring of sorts. But it positions the ends of the sway bar, which pass though and bolt to each control arm, such that there is minimal induced rotational twisting of the control arm itself, theoretically allowing freer movement of the control arm at the frame end attachment (horizontal bolt) and presumably at the ball joints as well. The steering wheel even ended up rotated 45 deg clockwise relative to the start of the day---which was fine since it has been about 90 out since the control arm replacement (we loosened just about everything.....
The toe had been way out since the last control arm replacement and I had grown tired of holding the steering wheel for the main purpose of keeping the vehicle from diving into the ditch on the shoulders, so 1/2 rotation to pull the toe in on the right front and off for a test drive.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE
While still out of alignment, the steering wheel is as free as it's been in about 10 years, which is when I started having problems getting alignments to feel the way a properly aligned vehicle should.
Having presumably removed a static stress that was pinned in place and now evenly redistributed that stress across the swaybar (both bushings removed together the only way to do it), the car steers more freely than it has in a decade.
Now just needs an alignment.
What I've learned (besides how to bring back the proper steering feel and effort to my Satty:
Unless you're Andy or Alpha, you need to ask questions.
I tried to do so with the alignment dude who is very good at his job (there are apparently ways to create the required geometry for the end result in stupid ways that will not hold in order to get by--he does not use them), but he didn't seem to have extensive knowledge of the Saturn front suspension. But he freely admitted they rarely work on Saturns (too many hills in area) and especially the s cars.
He did pick out some marginal rear components that I did replace on the 95 SC2 which now drives like a dream. But I had asked him if the front sway bar bushings could be an issue on this car, especially w r t a caster issue on the same wheel I did the control arm on (afterwards) but he did not want to commit.
Anyway, more blabbing after I get an alignment.
#3
09-21-2016, 02:05 PM
Hmmm, I have never had a problem replacing LCA's or sway bar bushings on any of my Mopars. But I can understand what you're saying about them shifting, derf. Nice job on the replacements and I hope after the alignment, you can turn the wheel loose on a straight stretch, take a short nap and stay in your own lane!
#4
09-21-2016, 10:27 PM
I had never had significant issues with the LCA's on the 95 SC2 -- I actually did them both alone. The first one on this 97 needed some persuading. The second one was bizarrely difficult. But after figuring out the root cause it led to what seems to have been a long overdue repair. The bar did NOT shift side to side -- I believe the bushings were compressed unevenly. Removing both brackets and bushings at the same time allowed the stress to equalize at the sway bar/LCA bushings. Have never done front swaybar bushings and to be honest I was shocked at the difference it made.
Now I know.
Now I know.
#7
09-23-2016, 07:14 AM
No, I'm so broke that even those get eaten. NO wasting food around my house. It costs too damned much to live here. I hate it.
#8
09-25-2016, 02:16 AM
Two wheels sightly out of balance, but the car is aligned -- drives like it hasn't in a decade. Smooth and free steering wheel and the damn thing goes where you point it now.
So if you have an absurdly difficult time w an LCA replacement on an S Car, the front swaybar bushings are likely gone and allowing the swaybar ends to push both back and away from the LCA frame mounting location It also results in a slight but very troublesome upward twisting motion being applied to the entire LCA (counterclockwise looking at right front wheel). So between the frame mount end of the LCA being too far away from the frame and being slightly rotated, it is pretty damn near impossible to exert enough force to move it in far enough AND catch the bolt in the hole at the same time (1 person).
That's the red flag that there is something else needing attention.
In the future, should I ever need to do LCAs again, I might actually consider loosening up both sway bar bushings and decoupling the LCA at the ball joint (CAREFULLY) on the side I'm NOT working on in order to have the ability to easily position both LCAs over the sway bar and into the frame mounts. Yes, there will be some tension, but nothing that should be insurmountable.
So if you have an absurdly difficult time w an LCA replacement on an S Car, the front swaybar bushings are likely gone and allowing the swaybar ends to push both back and away from the LCA frame mounting location It also results in a slight but very troublesome upward twisting motion being applied to the entire LCA (counterclockwise looking at right front wheel). So between the frame mount end of the LCA being too far away from the frame and being slightly rotated, it is pretty damn near impossible to exert enough force to move it in far enough AND catch the bolt in the hole at the same time (1 person).
That's the red flag that there is something else needing attention.
In the future, should I ever need to do LCAs again, I might actually consider loosening up both sway bar bushings and decoupling the LCA at the ball joint (CAREFULLY) on the side I'm NOT working on in order to have the ability to easily position both LCAs over the sway bar and into the frame mounts. Yes, there will be some tension, but nothing that should be insurmountable.
