My 1995 SC1 with 178,000 miles has had a hard intermittent stumble on acceleration for a good while. Here recently it started the "stumble" at idle and then the engine would quit. When that started, the Service Engine Soon light came on, and stayed on. My son took it to a local tire/repair shop who told me the codes indicated the PCM was bad, but they were not equipped to change it. I bought an reman PCM from Autozone and took it to an independent repair shop that does all my work that I don't do. They changed the PCM but then told me the instrument cluster was also bad. They obtained a used "good" cluster and installed it. The engine would crank and run (but not good), but he tach would not work. It also had "several codes" as they put it, but did not tell me what they were. I then got on the internet and found a cluster from a 1996 SC1. I got it and they installed it. Now the engine starts, but will not rev up for about 5 seconds when the Service Engine Soon light comes on. It now runs and drives fine, but the tach does not work. Now if I jump the A and B terminals on the ALDL, and watch the SES light I get a code 19.
Any suggestions???
HELP!!!
Walter

 

oiy a code 19

That's a 6X signal fault
Could be an ignition (DIS) module (which keys off of this), the associated wiring to the PCM, or the PCM itself may be defective.

Not sure if you can get just the DIS module or if you have yo get the coil packs as well.

Worth a try

EDIT: See post below regarding incomapability
________
1) would love to know what the codes were back when the original stumble was occurring......

2) How they got from
bad pcm to
replacement pcm to
PCM works but instr cluster doesn't to
oh wait, the PCM is still throwing codes but as a mechanic I won't share
them with the owner (probably cause they'll indicate that my original diag of
bad pcm was wrong....) to

you have an S car with a code 19 that pretty much doesn't run

A) I'm assuming you did not yet pay the shop for the handywork which has landed you in this situation.
B) The mysterious dash stuff sounds to be the aftermath of something more major not being correct
C) Was the replacement PCM ordered for the same year, same model, same options? I'm no PCM guru, but I have seen other posts where it needs to be spot on for everything to work correctly when swapped. That being said, Saturn would be able to tell you what PCMs are directly swappable with yours.

____
(I wonder if the ORIGINAL codes included a code 19............)

 

That's what is puzzling, the car seems to run perfectly, just that the tach does not work. As mentioned before, I replaced the instrument cluster with one (that was advertised as working) from a '96 SC1. Now I'm wondering if the '96 cluster is completely compatible with my '95.

 

Bump

 

Looking strictly at the definition of a Code 19 and not checking any further, it appears to be a function of the crank shaft postion sensor which seems to point at a potential sensor problem.
=====
6X Signal Fault The 6X output signal is a five volt square wave that is initially high. The signal switches low at each of the six. 60 degrees crankshaft position (CKP) sensor pulses. The 6X signal is used by the PCM for greater rpm resolution and in determining KS circuit (system) (knock retard) windowing.

Diagnostic Trouble Code parameters: DTC 19 will set if: Three 6X pulses do not occur between each reference pulse. A 6X pulse does not immediately follow a reference pulse.

=======

I have had problems with this sensor on other engines where it was sensitive to positioning and physical condition. Other than that, time to pull out a service manual and study it a bit.

 

You are indeed correct on the definition Unc (I have edited my above post) --though the signal must go through the DIS on its way to the PCM

however, it seems a 96 cluster in a 95 wont work properly

just found this:

http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/sho...hlight=code+19

 

There was a time when you could buy a $500.00 used car and with a little work and basic hand tools turn it into something that ran reliable (for the times anyway) for quite a long time. With the introduction of smog requirements which changed the euphemisms from advantageous to performance and economy to required to maintain smog certification with out any regard to performance or economy or even reliability Detroit’s emphasis seems to have been geared to getting it out the door and through the warranty period , and little else.
An alternator was a high teck answer to a generator. A transistorized factory ignition was not designed to enhance performance. A $5.00 set of points worked just as well but required a tune up once a year where as the electronics required no maintenance. This satisfied the feds requirement of smog adjustments lasting 50,000 miles under warranty with out the need for repairs.
There were of course two major results of the philosophy though, operation became more reliable, the other side more expensive to buy and to diagnose and repair if needed.
Fast forward to the last 10 years where computer applications to automobiles have made quantum advancements AND can be cheaply modified from year to year to reflect what ever is new, wonderful and makes good advertisement press.
I just looked at a new car. The featured gizmo of the moment. Push button start. My 1937 Ford had that, except now if the key needs to be replaced it is a $300.00 item rather than a hardware store duplicate for a buck.
Of course the other side of that is that it is now cheaper to throw the car away as in all appliances than it is to fix it due to expense and lack of interchangeability of what appears to be changeable parts.
Go figure!
With out proper data and available parts it is harder to deal with well used newer cars now. ‘Specially those some dozen or so that have become orphans since I have been alive.
I am hoping to hear about a replacement instrument cluster for my 94 this week. I will be thrilled if one materialises.

 

What is weird is that most of the clusters on Fleabay are listed as 95-96.

Where physically is the crank position sensor located on the engine?

 

Located near starter. It is black with a blue connector and held in by 10 mm bolt.
Richpin has a vid for this as well....but its's pretty straightforward

(OldNuc has been around the block....)