SL2 Check Engine Light
 

Ok here is my question for this group. I have a 1997 Saturn SL2 and the check engine light went on, my question and please read this entire post, is what could cause this light to turn on?

Now here is what I have done, first I took the automobile to the local parts store, they put their generic scanner on it and it came back no codes. So I took it to a friend who had a bit better scanner but all his would do is engine and transmission, again his said NO CODES. SO I was on ebay and purchased a Snap On MT2500, now this unit does a wide variety of test. It went thru each of the systems.

Engine test - passed all things reported back, no codes
Transmission - passed all things reported back, no codes

ABS - error message was can not communicate with ABS system. Now from reading shop manuals and looking at automobile I know it has ABS system. So would this cause the check engine light to illuminate? I would have thought that a fault in this system would cause an ABS light to light. Maybe I am wrong. That is why I am asking this group.

SRS - Airbag disconnected passenger side. Again would this error cause the check engine light? I would have thought that it would light the AIR BAG light. But it does not. Air bag light does not illuminate or flash for any reason what so ever.

But since these two system are the only 2 that reported errors it makes me wonder if one of these are tripping up the check engine light. Any thoughts or ideas greatly appreciated.

Have a great day.

I would tend to agree with you

Let's start simple -- what happens if you clear out the SES light with the tool?
Does it come back on?

My Mitchels software based diagnostics, a kinda handy thing I have is sort of a multi car software version of the individual service type manuals you can by at Autozone or O'Riellys did not come up with a list of things that might trigger the check engine or MIL light as it is referred to.
It did say though that the list was extensive and to read them, you need an OBDII scan tool Tech 1 or 2. It seemed to indicate that unless the error was directly related to engine control and emissions criteria, the MIL or Check engine light might not be even lit. There apparently are 4 levels of importance attached to triggering something with the option of lighting the display or not and if the problem is intermittent and does not happen again with in 50 key starts, the error code is erased.
So I really can not help you except to say these things are about as complex as you can get and with out the right tools can be a pure bugger to diagnose.
So as a WAG comment, I'll agree with Derf.

Could it be possible that a computer/control module itself is bad?

(dosent the SES light only deal with things emissions related though)

the only reason I brought this up is because my aunts caddilac threw a light but no codes, and it turned out to be the PCM

First off I would like to know when you say SES since I am unfamilar with that terminology do you mean the SRS (Safety Restraint System)?

If so then No I have not been able to clear that message. And that is because I have not replaced the air bag on the passenger side yet. Was planning on doing that this comming weekend.

Now I might not have said this in my first posting but while I was online with the engine computer I did do a clear all codes on it, even though it said there was not codes. And I did the same with the transmission computer. When I tried to do a clear on the SRS computer the message would not clear and that of course was because there was no air bag connected to the passenger side. SO this weekend I am going to try that and see what happens. I did notice that when I was attempting the clear on the SRS nothing was occuring on the dash board. I would have thought that if the SRS was the culprit that running it through a clear would have maybe made the light flicker.

Now as for the scan tool I use I have the Snap On MT2500 and it has quite and extensive ability to diagnose and trouble shoot various functions on the auto. Just a little FYI.

As to the ABS it might be a culprit in this case because I have heard the relay clicking on and off and like I said for some reason the scan tool is having a problem communicating with it. I can also tell you that sometime my locking mechanism on the shift, it is an automatic transmission, will not release right away. Sometimes it takes up to a minute before it releases.

And one other thing I noticed and am not sure if it is related to anything here or not. Sometimes I have some amount of trouble getting the car to start, UNLESS I do the following, turn the key to on, wait for upto two seconds, because after like two seconds all the gages and such are now on and registering, then turn the key to start and the engine fires right up. If I try to do it before the gages turn on, then it has some amount of trouble where you might have to crank it for a bit before it start. Hope that is clear.

Thanks to all the replies so far. Have a great day.

startup issues with 97 fuel pumps are a well known issue -- they have a fuel pressure bleed off problem unique to the original 97 pumps I use a 3 second delay on mine, personally,

SES= Service Engine Soon = check engine light= MIL=malfunction indicator lamp

There are other codes besides the Pxxx (powertrain) codes; there are
Bxxx (body codes)
Cxxx (chassis codes)
Uxxx (undefined codes)

I looked through the generic codes and found all kinds of B codes related to SRS and all kinds of C codes related to ABS but that doesn't mean Saturn used them and if they did your tool should be pulling them.

Your tool should have a MIL (see above) indicator status readout -- does it match the light actually being on?

Also -- are we talking about the SES light and not the one that says "Service" with a wrench??

Well now I am just learning something new. As I said this is the first Saturn I have owned and of course it is used so I do not have all the books and literature that goes along with say a new car. SO I was unaware that this make of automobile has two indicator lights for issues pertaining to the automobile. The one poster says that there are two, one that is considered the MIL or SES light and one that is says SERVICE with a wrench symbol.

So now that I know that now I can say that the light that is illuminated is the one that says SERVICE with the wrench symbol.

So now that I know this, how does one reset this status light?

It could be something as simple as a loose gas cap. Check and make sure yours in on tight.

the poster replies -- never have known what turns that one on

Pls call a dealer and post the results of what you find

@ derf. I remember reading in my owners manual that that one comes on when you have a more serious problem not related with emissions.

which hopefully mr tweaver will determine and post so we can all learn something.
I hate expending time and energy to help people that never come back

I am back, no need to worry about that. Over the weekend I had hopped to reconnect my air bag on the passenger side and see if that fixed the problem but unfortunately it rained all weekend and since I do not have a garage I will just have to wait a bit. However I did go to a relatives house and he has a 98 SL2, and he does have the owners manual.

Derf is right that there are two trouble lights. One that says service with a wrench symbol for what the book says are non emission troubles. And of course the one below that one on the dash board that says Service Engine soon.

After reading my relatives manual I found out that when you turn the key to run, without starting the car the Service Engine Soon light should be illuminated. And since it does not I did some more searching and found some posting that if the SES light is blown or shorted it will cause the wrench service light to illuminate. So my thinking is this SES light is non functional and that is what is causing the service with wrench light to be illuminated. However this is just a guess at this time. On wednesday it is suppose to be nice out and not be raining so I plan on working on the auto on that day. Will post my results.

I would have initially agreed with the poster about the Gas cap until I read the owners manual. SInce the gas cap is part of the emissions system I would think if there was a problem with the gas cap, and if my SES light functioned, it would illuminate the SES light. And since my Snap On MT2500 says there are no codes in the computer I would have to say the gas cap is fine. However with as complicated as cars are anymore I could be wrong. Again as time allows I will find the problem and post my findings to share with the community.

Snip
However with as complicated as cars are anymore I could be wrong.
Snip
Dems is strong words!
Said many times I like my Saturn. A wierd set of circumstances which also turns out I have owned it since 1996. A 94 SC2 coupe. More or less 16 years or so. One of the options that it came with is the Lady I am spending the rest of my life with. I even like her too.
I consider myself a passable back yard wrench and have been fortunate enough to build pretty much from junk yard sources some pretty nice cars that have won awards locally, regionally and nationally. Are there better, yup, but mine are good.
And owning this car for as long as I have I am still discovering things on it that I had no clue existed and this twin check engine light is one of them.
The catalytic converter went bad on mine. I really did not know it at the time.
I live in Arizona, it is HOT during the summer. Triple digits is HOT, there are mountains here with 7% grades. Care get hot climbing them at 70 mph. Saturns had a design/parts problem long term with the temperature sensor used to display and monitor temperature. I discovered that YEARS ago.
The bottom line? Depending on the circumstances, the heat gauge has pretty much been a useless contrivance on the dash board. Having owned some cars that did not have heat gauges (when it was hot water squirted out of the radiator) and others that did not have working heat gauges or some form of idiot light, when they were hot water squirted out of the radiator, there reaches a point where you don't worry about how hot the damned gauge says it is, if the water ain't boiling you don't worry.
And I got there with mine. Between the gauge always being suspect and as it turns out the slightly plugged cat cause the engine to get pretty hot climbing long 7% grades at 70 mph or more. Yuh I drive too fast most of the time.
And you ignore it because now I am programed to. It ain't boiling.
So
one July4th I am on my way to Cottonwood AZ on I17 crowding the speed limit all the way and there are two long 7% grades out in the middle of the high desert between where are you and you can't get there from here and it is 120 degrees or there about and the heat gauge is rising and it is beginning to scare me. The higher it gets with out going down, running in the red and it is HOT and I am Hot and as it turns out the CAR is hot and I really did not know it. I pretty much didn't believe it.
Until I hit a really steep section and then
it seems from memory there were so many damned lights that went on from the dash board I thought I had turned on a Christmas Tree. I had no clue some them existed.
No I don't remember them, but it caught my attention out there in the heat and the pukerbrush.
There was a gas station about 10 miles down the road and I figured if I could get there at least I could get to a phone and some help. If this thing was that hot, it was probably toast by now anyway. I looked for signs of steam? None, I turned off the AC (yup it is 120 degrees) I knew the road was pretty much flat for awhile and I was not about to shut things down and look in the middle of no where for fear it would not start, opened all the windows that the moon roof, slowed down to something reasonable and trucked on.
To my surprise the christmast tree indicators turned off and shortly the heat gauge came out of the red and I got to the gas station and pulled off the road. I left the engine running (I still needed to get some where and as long it was running I was gonna try) opened the hood to check for overheating sysmpton, none, no water blowing anywhere, no steam no bubbling sounds made a decision to gamble and continued on. It was a scary moment.
Complicated cars? Oh yeah, probably in ways most of use will never discover, are we familiar with what goes on in ours? Probably not, I think I am good. I stlill run accross the "I did not know it would do that! Stuff"
As to the Saturn, I took it off the road shortly after that and parked it in the driveway wondering what to do with it. I did not need it, it was excess bagage and the cosmetics went to hell.
So gas went to $4.00 a gallon and I started to look for something to buy that had good gas mileage when I stumbled accross the forlone looking Saturn in my Drive way and I I looked at it thinking, it's mine, it's paid for and I like it and it gets 33 mpg on the open road the PROJECT light went on.
So a couple of months later I had found and solved all the minor irritant problems that time had developed, fixed the broken stuff. That is where I discovered the bad catalytic converter and the overheating problems source (been there before but in far worse of a situation) painted, polished and shined with the interior repaired and the Sun Roof finally taken care of the silly thing looked almost new, ran fine and made me happy again.
Still does, although it turns out I did not get enough clear on it and the clear coat is going again.
And it still amazes me that GM designed it and then ran it into the ground while simultaniously running 3 other brands into the ground too along with international holdings and now is trying to sell cars assembled from parts bins of other manufactures (an age old practice known as badge engineering no matter what the co-orperate name is now coined by some bean counter in marketing) while companies that learned how to manufacture and market from GM are becomming successful and making tons of money while GM is closing plants in order to become profitable. Why is it that picture never made sense to me?
Sorry, O'dark thirty, can't sleep and I ramble nonsence this time of night.

welcome back mr t --good to have you.

Unc -- this is one of your worst ramblings to date
but it wouldn't be the same with out ya

(and to think I was THIS close to banning you for irrelevance when you joined..:D)

Well as promised I am posting current results for my 1997 Saturn SL2.

Wednesday I took dash apart and removed instrument cluster, went thru and replaced bad bulbs. Now all lights seem to function. My SES/MIL lite comes on when key is turned on and turns off after car is started. My air bag comes on flashes like 7 times, which the haynes manual says it should but then it stays illuminated, so I know there is an issue with air bags. I also checked as best I could the gas cap and reseated it. Everything there seems to be ok.

However I am still getting the service with wrench symbol light illuminated.

Since the manual says this means a non emmision issue with car has occured. I can only conclude at this point that it is either because of the airbag, which tonight I plan on replacing computer, since I found a posting that stated that once the airbags have been deployed you need to not only replace airbags but also the computer, to see if this will fix the air bag light, then if the service with wrench is still on then I am going to start looking into the ABS brakes. because again according to manual this light should illuminate upon turning the key on, and well it does not. And I know from using my scan tool that the scan tool could not communicate with ABS system. Fixing one problem at a time and then posting results.

Not having the mad money available to buy a scan tool and not being backed into a corner bad enough to actually need one for diagnostics I have not purchased one. Spending a good share of my life in computor controlled machine diagnostics I do though recognise;
1. The reliability of that kind of technology and problems you can get at by just throwing non-compatible parts at the electronics
2. That about 10 years or so ago the on board automotive electronics has standardised quite a bit to OBD-II level (I think that is right) where the Scan Tool is now universal more or less between cars and years. And the prices are comming way down.
I've been lucky to not have problems I could not get around when not having a scan tool but I am sure even as old as I am, I have 7 cars, one of which is a computor converstion of an I-6 street rod the others are late model used except 2 street racers and 2 survivor collector cars all carburated.
Some where along the line it might be a good idea to have a good scan tool in my tool kit.
One proper use at the right time will pay for it in parts I won't have to buy to guess at.
But of course arn't all of our tools like that.
Waiting to see how this turns out. Thanks for the update.

you could call a gm dealer which used to be a saturn dealer or at least find a gm dealer with former saturn techs that work there -- they will prob be able to provide you a short list of reasons the light may be on

As promised here is the most recent update to the issues at hand.

During the past week I have checked all lights out not only on the dash but also around the perimeter of the car. All light function properly.

I have also repaired the airbag SRS system and it is now functioning normally.

I have gone online with computer system using my SnapOn MT2500 and there are no codes in the SRS, Transmission or Engine.

The MIL light is not illuminated, which is good.

SO with everything now working properly you would think that the lights on the dash would work properly. But that does not seem to be the case.

The service with wrench symbol still comes on shortly after starting the auto. When I am online with the computer it shows the status of that light and it states the light is lit, but I can not find a place to tell me what to check or why the light could be on.

So I am going to go with the idea of calling a Saturn Service area and see what they can tell me about this light. I will keep my eye on this forum site just in case someone has an idea.

Additional information Gleaned from Software package in front of me at the moment.
I have a hard copy mitchels service manual for a 1994, not sure what year they go up to and might have a Chiltons for a 1997. Out in the garage have not looked.
1997 SL2
A non-emmissions related DTC (Diagnostics Trouble Code) Gawd I hate acronyms will turn on the Service light.
I have no positive definition in this document what a service lite is other than it seems to be a light called; Service Tell Tail or STT or Service Light.
The DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) that triggers this light is called a TYPE C DTC.

My data I am looking at does not identify what a Type C DTC is other than it is a number. Alpha Numeric.
To read this code according to the literature you need a Tech 1 or Tech 2 scan tool and sub menus in the DTC mode

History Menu displays Type C that have failed with in the last 40 Warm-up cycles.
The problem here it also displays others too
The point is it should display a code if there is one.

Last Test Fail menu
Will display a type C code providing it occurred during the current ignition cycle.

Not being familiar with the operation of scan tools leaves me at a disadvantage in that if this information is some how dated I do not know how to transpose it into something current.
Also if the indicator with the wrench on it is the STT or Service Tell Tail lamp than what I have copied out or summerized is valid

I am not sure I can come up with anything more constructive. If you are unable to read any code as a function of History
either there is none to read
or
your scan tool is not detailed enough to read a minority problem.
This information was obtained by asking my software package for diagnostics for a 1997 Saturn SC2.
It is not factory manual detailed, more like a compilation of Chilton manual detailed so I am sure that nuances are not catagorized.
Hope this some how helps.

My data does include diagnostics for problems that do not display codes, but no mention of displaying indicator lamps on the dash board and depends on drivability symptoms to trigger a diagnostics. Being pissed at an errant light bulb was not one of them.