all four brakes locked up at the same time
 

Hello all--new member with a 2008 Saturn Vue XE, 105k miles.

Last week all four brakes locked up on me--felt like i was driving with the pbrake on. Limped it into a pep boys--closest place--and they gave a ridiculous quote on changing out all brake pad, the rotors on front and back, the calipers on the front. Got the car home, husband checked the brakes--the pads on the back were worn, rotors were fine. Pads, rotors and calipers on front were fine--pads were a bit worn but not to the point of needing to be changed out. won't be going back to a pep boys anytime soon needless to say.

So the hubby has changed the brake pads. we read somewhere on the net--can't remember where--that the brake lines could corrode from the inside--supposedly a common problem with the vues/saturns of our year--and create a situation where all four brakes would lock up. so he replaced the lines. got new brake fluid and noticed that the fluid in my reservoir was sticky. not sure what could cause that--we haven't done anything to the brakes since about 40K when hubby changed the front pads. maybe water from condensation or humidity--we are in FL.

So now he has been trying to bleed the brakes and they are bled but the brakes still don't work. maybe it is a master cylinder problem?? or the booster pump.

thanks in advance for any insight!!

Wish I could help you on that one, but I've never heard of that happening on ANY vehicle. Got to be a GM exclusive. Perhaps it's the master cylinder, but in my 40+ years of tinkering with cars, I've never seen that happen. And I've worked on all brands of domestics and a LOT of imports. I hope someone here can help you.

thanks for the reply and just a quick update on that--hubby got sick and tired of messing with it, left to go do something else, came back, put the car back together, and took it for a test drive--so far so good--brakes feel different but then all four pads were replaced and all four lines replaced.

none of my husband's friends had ever heard of this situation happening before. i guess it could have been worse--all four brakes not working at all and having a crash.

If someone at Pep Boys put power steering fluid in your master cylinder, this would happen.

Andy, if someone actually did that, could it damage any of the seals in the system or the rubber brake lines from the ends of the steel lines to the calibers? I know PS fluid circulates in rubber lines under pressure, but there are different kinds of rubber made from different materials (said the analytical/polymer chemist)


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Rube the 2008's over time seem to have developed a frightening trend of corroding from the inside, Over time, with aged fluid in the system, it has created problems where the calipers will close on the discs but not retract when the foot is taken off the pedal. The valves on the master cylinder in general seem to have been ruled out.


I remember I poster on our site that said that they only way they could get their one affected wheel to free up was to pull over, put the car in reverse, hit the gas gently, and the calipers would retract.


All rather strange

Good grief! Seems like GM should have had to issue a recall and replaced all of the brake lines with something COMPATABLE with DOT 3 or 4 brake fluid. Brake hoses could have also been effected, I suppose. The more I read about problems with VUE's, the less appealing they've become to me.

You would be amazed how many times I have seen this. The easiest way to tell if the wrong fluid has been added is the rubber boot under the master cylinder cap. If the rubber under the cap is bigger than it is supposed to be then the whole system will have problems. You have to replace or rebuild every part that has rubber in it.

I guess that would be one way for them to keep me coming back. too bad for them my husband knows his way around a vehicle. will run all of this by my husband and see what he thinks. while he knows his way around a vehicle, not so much with computer stuff. ;)

Saturn/Equinox brakes seizing
 

Firstly, welcome to the forum.

Thanks for your informational post.

I can see the MC leaking into the booster creating a situation where you have enough pressure to close the calipers, but insufficient system pressure to draw the fluid back and release them,
I would think the brake fluid level would steadily decline and in the absence of any other leaks would be a good indicator of that condition. Did you see evidence of fluid level decrease?

Indeed as others have stated, the metal lines on these are known to corrode from the inside out.

Have not heard of a rusty bracket squeezing the rubber brake line hoses partially closed. Those lines usually have a big metal crimped-on type connection where they meet the metal lines. Unless the line shifted and the rust built up between the clamp and the actual rubber, I don' really understand how what you are describing is physically possible.

Could you please describe it in a different way?

I'm not challenging you nor messing with you. I'd just like to understand.

For the record, I totaled an 08 VUE XR w/100K on it and thankfully never had this problem.
Did this ever become a recall? If this isn't a safety hazard, I'm not sure what is.

Saturn Equinox brake seizing Derf
 

Derf,
I joined this forum because I have read across the forums for all the related autos (equinox to XL7) that brakes intermittently seize. First let me describe what is going on. Intermittently the brakes will heat up and begin seizing and the driver will have to pull over. NOT all the time because that (other) problem is related to the brake booster/master cylinder combo being out of adjustment. So When this intermittently happens it is most likely the brake hoses. The hose is secured in place by a clamp that mounts to the top of the wheel assembly at the bottom of the strut. this is the clamp that rusts on the surface that contacts the hose. The inside of the hose become partially blocked because the rust is squeezing it shut. It allows the fluid to pass toward the caliper at high pressure when you apply the brake and does not return promptly because there is no real pressure on the caliper side to force it back. In my case, the brakes were Not seizing but dragging and i would notice that after a stop, the brake would take a few seconds to release. That prompted me to change the brake booster and master cylinder because i thought i had the (other initial ) problem of the fluid leaking into the booster from the master. Ironically, it seems that both of these problems begin around 100 K. The brakes seizing constantly (which is what happened after i changed the master/booster combination was a secondary issue related to adjustment of the internal push rod inside the booster. Now, in the other post i attempted to avoid the issue of this being a safety/recall problem. My position is that IF GM had made me aware that the hoses were likely to fail in high salt areas due to rust that cannot be easily detected, (I just did a whole bunch of other brake/wheel bearing work) I could have easily changed all four hoses at that time. As disappointed as i am with GM over this and other issues, (I had to replace the fuel pump because of the well-known cracked line on top of the tank, leaking fuel) I don't really expect them to pay for the hoses or their installation, but it would have been nice to at least know of this as a "wear related" issue so i could have addressed that before it became a problem. PEople, a fellow that i initially responded to in the above thread, actually traded the car because of the problem. SO, i can understand, from GM standpoint that if they acknowledge a problem with the brake line that would freak people out and they would want a recall, but i also am a realist in knowing that the car has been out of warranty for five years. On the upside, i still highly believe that the equinox/vue/torrent etc. is one of the safest cars ever, (when all is working), and I intend to buy another. I have seen GM chassis take incredible hits in accidents and compared to all other makes, they, to me at least, are up there with the best. One last note. If you are reading this and you changed the booster/master combo and your brakes seem to drag, they need to be adjusted. If they overheat and you have to stop, chances are that all the traction control, stabilitrak etc, warning lights will come on including the check engine light. in my case, after i adjusted the booster all the problems vanished. I will still take another shot at bleeding though because i think there might still be some air but, no warning lights or anything now. I joined this forum because I have seen others spend thousands of dollars at the dealerships and i could have very well been one of them, and I just wanted to share my experience. Thanks Derf

Thank you - now I understand the rusty bracket part. If the brake system is truly sealed 9no leaks into booster, then one would expect the fluid to be drawn back to the MC by suction/vacuum/pressure gradient in the other direction. Kind of a physics thing. HOWEVER, if that rubber line degrades, the hose may collapse when the pressure is inverted pulling fluid back to the MC, causing the fluid to be trapped in the caliper, then slowly bleed back to the MC, or not.

As for recalls, the warranty period has no bearing on safety-related recalls. I have read many a similar situation end up in recalls on vehicles in the salt belt due to design flaws like the location of that clamp and the defective lines that were not manufactured or selected properly for ALL expected driving conditions.

Brakes = stop.
Brakes that stop the vehicle when not asked to are dangerous, just as brakes that do not work are dangerous. THere should be at least an investigation by the NHTSA on file at NHTSA.gov if enough people compained and god forbid someone got injured as a direct result of this flaw.

How many had to die over the Ion ignition switch nightmare before it was taken seriously.? GM KNEW it and let people continue to die until the NHTSA made them act.
Then GM went bankrupt and created new GM by buying only the ASSETS of the old GM. NOT the LIABILITIES.
So all the lawsuits against them? Gone. Accepting responsibility for people dying due to a KNOWN DEFECT ---none. Standing behind your product? Nope.. All about Dollars and sense.

That's why my wrecked view was replaced with a 2014 Ford Escape. I'm done with GM's brand of cowardice.
Now I just have to get used to the 6F35 tranny slowly degrading in shift quality. They won't just redesign the valve body and solenoids--they keep putting the same unpredictable crap in the same tranny and selling it.
Why? They have to use up all the parts they already purchased to build them PLUS they'd have to do some retooling on the line.

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