"It seems kind of odd to me that there's no proportioning valve in the system"
Here's what I said in the comment above "The regular Vues have a proportioning valve, while the Redline versions (which I have) have the ABS pump that acts as the proportioning valve, at least that's what I've read"
So I'm pretty sure the ABS pump basically is the proportioning valve and the ABS pump at the same time, I'm not sure how that works.

I bled all 4 wheels the other night, and I've bled them a million times since this problem started, but it definitely wouldn't hurt to bleed everything again. I have a cheap amazon OBD2 reader that can actuate the ABS solenoid valves, so I should be able to ABS bleed at home, but I don't know what order to work the valves or how exactly to use it because it's not like the fancy scanners that you press "start" and follow the instructions on screen. It gives me a lit of 8 menus, 4 "inlet valves" and 4 "outlet valves" for front right left and rear corners. The thing is they're menus so I can only activate one at a time, but next time I bleed I'll do some experimenting.

 

So I just checked Mitchel/pro demand.
It does say to use a scan tool. But it also states that bleeding manually, follow order of right rear, left front, left rear, right front. Depressing the pedal 3-5 times and holding down if not using the brake flush machine.
All in short terms. I didn't want to copy the 10 pages

 

Great information, Billy. I sure hope that helps him get it fixed.

 

Thanks for the research Billy, I have been bleeding in the order of RR, FL, RL, FR for a while now, the first time I bled it I bled it in the order of RR, RL, FR, FL because I didn't know there was a specific order. I said in a comment above that some people say to use the scan tool, and some people say the fluid should flow through the ABS module while bleeding, and some say to bleed the wheels, then activate ABS on loose ground, then bleed again. I still have that low brake power issue, I believe it's because of the booster adjustment, so I'm going to try to sort that out today. Thanks for the help

 

Operation CHARM: Car repair manuals for everyone.
Home >> Saturn >> 2006 >> VUE AWD V6-3.5L VIN 4 >> Repair and Diagnosis >> Brakes and Traction Control >> Power Brake Assist >> Vacuum Brake Booster >> Service and Repair

Vacuum Brake Booster: Service and Repair

Vacuum Brake Booster Replacement

Removal Procedure





1. Disconnect and remove the battery.
2. Remove and position aside the underhood electrical center.
3. Remove the battery tray.
4. Disconnect the coolant surge hose from the surge tank and position aside.
5. Remove the master cylinder mounting nuts. Do NOT disconnect the brake pipes from the master cylinder.
6. Carefully pull the master cylinder away from the vacuum booster and position aside.
7. Disconnect the vacuum booster check valve and hose assembly from the booster.





8. Remove the transaxle control module (TCM) and position over engine.
9. Remove the brake modulator assembly, if equipped.





10. Remove the brake modulator valve bracket, if equipped.





11. Remove the brake booster push rod-to-brake pedal retaining clip.
12. Remove the foam washer from the brake pedal assembly.





13. Remove the brake booster mounting nuts.

14. Important: Ensure that the foam insulator on the mounting surface of the brake booster withdraws with the booster.

Disengage the brake booster from the front of dash and the brake pedal bracket. Maneuver the booster toward the center of the vehicle in order to ease removal.

Installation Procedure





1. Install the foam insulator the vacuum brake booster.
2. Install the brake booster to the vehicle.
3. Install, but do not tighten, the booster mounting nuts.
4. Lightly lubricate the booster push rod pivot pin on the brake pedal with silicone lubricant.
5. Install the booster push rod to the pivot pin on the brake pedal.
6. Install the foam washer to the pivot pin.
7. Install the brake booster push rod retaining clip.





8. Fully seat the brake booster to the front of dash and the brake pedal assembly.

Notice: Refer to Fastener Notice in Service Precautions.

9. Tighten the vacuum brake booster mounting nuts.
Tighten the nuts to 25 Nm (18 ft. lbs.).





10. Install the brake modulator valve bracket, if equipped.
11. Install the brake modulator assembly, if equipped.





12. Install the transaxle control module (TCM) to the bracket.





13. Install the vacuum booster check valve and hose assembly to the booster.
14. Reposition and install the master cylinder to the booster.





15. Install the coolant surge hose and clamp to the surge tank.
16. Install the battery tray.
17. Install the underhood electrical center.
18. Install and connect the battery.
19. If necessary, bleed the brake system.
pro multis · About Operation CHARM

 

I've had front brake drag problems twice on my 2006 FWD Vue, and both times it was the front brake hoses which had developed an internal restriction, so brake fluid could go to the calipers but couldn't go back. Both times the brake hoses looked perfect on the outside too, no visible problems. I would double check for any kinks, rust, or possible restrictions on your front brake lines, including the hard lines.

Since you've already replaced the front rubber lines, it's unlikely that this is your problem, but I'd check again to rule it out. I followed the procedure Eric the Car Guy does in this video here:
Charm li has the description for the ABS and Traction Control systems: https://charm.li/Saturn/2006/VUE%202...d%20Operation/ It seems that the 3.5L Vue's use an electronic brake proportioning system and Traction Control system that works with ABS system components. If I am reading this right, the Electronic Brake Control Module can actually hold brake pressure at individual wheels to control wheel slip - maybe something in this system is acting screwy? As a diagnostic, I would try disabling the Traction Control system (on the 3.5L Vue's putting the transmission into Low should do it) and seeing if that affects your symptoms. You can disable to entire ABS system and all the electronic doohickeys easiest by unhooking one of your wheel speed sensors - this will make the computer set a fault light on the dash and disable the ABS/Trac system entirely and your brake system should work 'old-skool' without any computer controls. If this solves your issue you can focus your troubleshooting on the ABS and Trac system.

 

Thank you for all the information redview, this is very helpful and I'll look more into the traction control and ABS system. I've unplugged the front wheel speed sensors before and it didn't seem to eliminate the brake drag, but definitely reduced it.

Here's an update on the car:
I went outside and bled the whole thing again, all for wheels, in the order of RR FL RL FR. Normally I pump the brake 5 times, hold the pedal, crack the bleeder, and when the pedal is to the floor close the bleeder and pump again. This time I did it differently, and got a lot of air out. I cracked the bleeder, and pumped with the bleeder open (I had a rubber hose on the bleeder running into a brake fluid bottle) and kept pumping until the fluid was 110% clear of bubbles. After there were no more bubble, I pumped and bled like normal 5 times. I did this for all 4 wheels, and got a good bit of air out. The pedal was a little spongey from cracking the bleeder while the brakes were dragging to relieve pressure, and it feels more normal now.

This did not fix the brake drag however. It seems like now instead of starting off with no drag and slowly dragging more and more as I drive, it started off dragging a little and continued to drag throughout the whole trip. At least they didn't get super hot and lock up. I'm going to try some other things, starting with some research on the traction control system as suggested by redview. I'll continue updating this post until the problem is fixed. Thanks everyone.

One last thing, redview, I have the driveshaft currently removed (I can explain why if you want), would that cause issues with the traction control system?

 

Quick update, I did some looking into the traction control system. First of all, there shouldn't be a problem with removing the driveshaft and running it in FWD. Second, I read through the link review sent, and it was very helpful in explaining how ABS and traction control works. I looked up some videos on how to disable traction control, and it looks like just putting it in reverse or low should illuminate the traction control dash light and disable it. I also read that when the wheels are spinning or when the TCS is activated, the dash light will illuminate.

But the light doesn't come on. According to the manual (https://www.dezosmanuals.com/wp-cont...urn-VUE-OM.pdf) "The anti-lock brake system warning light should come on briefly when you turn the ignition key to RUN." It does not. I'm not sure what problem this would indicate. I also don't know if this could be related to the brake issue, but it's definitely a problem that should be fixed. Is there a way to tell if the TCS system is functioning properly besides the dash light? Also the wheels spin easily on loose surfaces, which I thought was normal but might not be, I have to be very careful driving up hill on gravel roads.

The ABS and BRAKE light do work, the ABS light comes on when I disconnect a wheel speed sensor or remove the ABS fuse, and the BRAKE light comes on when I activate the parking brake. (I have no dash warning lights when driving normally by the way), what do you guys think?

 

Tcs bulb possibly burned out?

 

It could be, it's an 18 year old car after all. It's probably nothing, I just found this TCS thing interesting since it's tied into the ABS, which has a lot to do with brakes. I'll keep hunting for ideas.