Ticking and loss of power after EGR replacement
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Ticking and loss of power after EGR replacement
2002 Saturn SL1
150k miles
I've had this car for 50k miles and have done all my own servicing on it.
Last week the alternator went out so I put a new alternator in it and it was throwing a code for the EGR valve for about a month so I put a new EGR valve in it. Drove it today and after about an hour it started making a ticking noise. Kind of a higher pitch ticking noise that follows rpms. I used a screwdriver as a makeshift stethoscope and it sounds like the clicking is coming from the base of the EGR valve. Also when the ticking started it also started to have extreme power loss but idles normally. I can sorta hear the click from the top of the valve cover but very faintly. I disconnected the EGR valve and still had a click . Any ideas on what I should do ? Appreciate any insight. Thanks
150k miles
I've had this car for 50k miles and have done all my own servicing on it.
Last week the alternator went out so I put a new alternator in it and it was throwing a code for the EGR valve for about a month so I put a new EGR valve in it. Drove it today and after about an hour it started making a ticking noise. Kind of a higher pitch ticking noise that follows rpms. I used a screwdriver as a makeshift stethoscope and it sounds like the clicking is coming from the base of the EGR valve. Also when the ticking started it also started to have extreme power loss but idles normally. I can sorta hear the click from the top of the valve cover but very faintly. I disconnected the EGR valve and still had a click . Any ideas on what I should do ? Appreciate any insight. Thanks
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Joined: Jul 2005
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From: Slightly off center
How many miles ago did you change the oil? Is it a different oil than you previously used? Did the code for the EGR go away when you installed the new one?
These engines make quite a bit of lifter noise as they get older. The fuel injectors are also rather noisy and make a clicking sound.
Loss of power is much more concerning.
Go to the passenger end of the engine (the front) and put your ear down on the valve cover end nearest the front of the engine. Don't get your hair caught in the serp belt. How loud is the click there?
Are you getting any other codes / check engine light, including blinking check engine light when driving? This would indicate active misfires.
These engines make quite a bit of lifter noise as they get older. The fuel injectors are also rather noisy and make a clicking sound.
Loss of power is much more concerning.
Go to the passenger end of the engine (the front) and put your ear down on the valve cover end nearest the front of the engine. Don't get your hair caught in the serp belt. How loud is the click there?
Are you getting any other codes / check engine light, including blinking check engine light when driving? This would indicate active misfires.
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Thank you for the quick reply . Had this car for 50k miles and had no noise previous to all the work I did yesterday. Everything started happening today at about 40 miles after repair. It didn't throw any codes as I limped it home but testing in my garage just now it threw PO405. ( Could of been from when I disconnected it when I got home). Possibly faulty EGR valve?
All around the passenger side valve cover is much quieter then around the drivers side by the EGR valve
The fuel trims seem crazy to me
Short ft1 35
Long ft1 -14
Idle is high at 900
No vacuum leaks that I can see anywhere
Yesterday I replaced:
Alternator
Serpentine belt
Oil change and filter (full synthetic 5w-30)
EGR Valve ( it was throwing a code )
All around the passenger side valve cover is much quieter then around the drivers side by the EGR valve
The fuel trims seem crazy to me
Short ft1 35
Long ft1 -14
Idle is high at 900
No vacuum leaks that I can see anywhere
Yesterday I replaced:
Alternator
Serpentine belt
Oil change and filter (full synthetic 5w-30)
EGR Valve ( it was throwing a code )
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,315
From: Slightly off center
I guess you would have noticed if you had forgotten to plug in the harness for the new EGR.
What was the original code that the original EGR was throwing?
At that mileage, EGR probably needs a cleaning to remove built up carbon which clogs up the valve and impedes the motion of the center pintle.
The pintle moves up and down as commanded by the PCM to mix in exhaust gases and route them back to the intake to get re-burned. Carbon deposits form on the pintle and the Central passage of the valve, limiting proper movement of the pintle.
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The PCM knows what movement it is expecting to see from the pintle. It's when it doesn't see the movement it expects that it starts throwing EGR codes.
Remove the valve. The pintle should have a slot for a torx bit.
Insert a torx driver and gently move the pencil in and out as well as around. The movement should be free and not hindered by anything. Do not slam the pintle in and out.
Rinse liberally with choke cleaner to remove as much carbon as you can see.
Turn upside down, fill with choke cleaner, and let it soak for about half an hour. Empty out and rinse rinse rinse. Gently work the pintle. Repeat soaking and rinsing until the pintle moves freely in all directions. Do not bend it.
When you have completed cleaning it and are sure there is no more carbon built up inside, soak it one more time then rinse well.
In order to keep the EGR from immediately clogging as soon as you put it back on, you should really clean the pipe feeding the EGR the raw exhaust. I have explained this in many EGR cleaning posts and show not repeat here. It's very hick, very loud, but very effective and potentially messy. Please search the forum.
I suspect the replacement EGR was defective, and that tapping may have been the pintle being overdriven in the upward direction. Take it back for a refund. Just make sure the pencil moves freely. I wouldn't try to clean it because it will then smell like solvent and they may refuse to take it back. Maybe compressed air if there's any junk in it.
What was the original code that the original EGR was throwing?
At that mileage, EGR probably needs a cleaning to remove built up carbon which clogs up the valve and impedes the motion of the center pintle.
The pintle moves up and down as commanded by the PCM to mix in exhaust gases and route them back to the intake to get re-burned. Carbon deposits form on the pintle and the Central passage of the valve, limiting proper movement of the pintle.
.
The PCM knows what movement it is expecting to see from the pintle. It's when it doesn't see the movement it expects that it starts throwing EGR codes.
Remove the valve. The pintle should have a slot for a torx bit.
Insert a torx driver and gently move the pencil in and out as well as around. The movement should be free and not hindered by anything. Do not slam the pintle in and out.
Rinse liberally with choke cleaner to remove as much carbon as you can see.
Turn upside down, fill with choke cleaner, and let it soak for about half an hour. Empty out and rinse rinse rinse. Gently work the pintle. Repeat soaking and rinsing until the pintle moves freely in all directions. Do not bend it.
When you have completed cleaning it and are sure there is no more carbon built up inside, soak it one more time then rinse well.
In order to keep the EGR from immediately clogging as soon as you put it back on, you should really clean the pipe feeding the EGR the raw exhaust. I have explained this in many EGR cleaning posts and show not repeat here. It's very hick, very loud, but very effective and potentially messy. Please search the forum.
I suspect the replacement EGR was defective, and that tapping may have been the pintle being overdriven in the upward direction. Take it back for a refund. Just make sure the pencil moves freely. I wouldn't try to clean it because it will then smell like solvent and they may refuse to take it back. Maybe compressed air if there's any junk in it.
Last edited by derf; Mar 7, 2025 at 08:20 PM.
Thread Starter
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Junior Member
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I cleaned the old EGR valve as instructed but haven't got a chance to drive it yet. It was covered in carbon and I got as much as I could but still looks kinda bad. I ordered a new Delphi one from rockauto and they gave me a refund for the old one which was made by Standard motor products. I also ordered a universal speedometer cable to try and drill my way through the mounting passage way to clear out any carbon. Thank you for the help and I'll keep you posted
Edit. I've been seeing a lot of mixed reviews on every aftermarket EGR valve . Do you guys think it's better to just run the stock one after I cleaned it up instead of getting a new one? Or do you have a brand you would recommend?
Edit. I've been seeing a lot of mixed reviews on every aftermarket EGR valve . Do you guys think it's better to just run the stock one after I cleaned it up instead of getting a new one? Or do you have a brand you would recommend?
Last edited by Dirtymaid; Mar 5, 2025 at 02:55 PM.
Thread Starter
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Junior Member
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Update
Cleaned out the stock EGR valve as instructed and ran a speedometer cable through the mounting plate all the way up to the throttle body pushing out a ton of carbon. Went for a test drive and again at about 30 mins run time tapping returned and loss of power. I did notice after cleaning the stock EGR valve when I would go to push it down it would be stuck initially and then crack free with pressure. After sitting for a few minutes again it would be stuck when I tried to initially push it down again.
The noise sounds like it's coming from the middle back of the motor. When I use the screw driver to listen it's ticking on the intake manifold and not on the head and not as much on the EGR valve anymore. I got underneath it and I do have a small leak in the flex pipe but that's not where the ticking is coming from, it's higher up. I tightened all the intake manifold and exhaust manifold nuts by about a 1/4 turn.
Faulty oil that is thinning out when it heats up ? The only things I did was the EGR, alternator, serpentine belt and oil change right before this started happening.
Thanks again for your time .
Cleaned out the stock EGR valve as instructed and ran a speedometer cable through the mounting plate all the way up to the throttle body pushing out a ton of carbon. Went for a test drive and again at about 30 mins run time tapping returned and loss of power. I did notice after cleaning the stock EGR valve when I would go to push it down it would be stuck initially and then crack free with pressure. After sitting for a few minutes again it would be stuck when I tried to initially push it down again.
The noise sounds like it's coming from the middle back of the motor. When I use the screw driver to listen it's ticking on the intake manifold and not on the head and not as much on the EGR valve anymore. I got underneath it and I do have a small leak in the flex pipe but that's not where the ticking is coming from, it's higher up. I tightened all the intake manifold and exhaust manifold nuts by about a 1/4 turn.
Faulty oil that is thinning out when it heats up ? The only things I did was the EGR, alternator, serpentine belt and oil change right before this started happening.
Thanks again for your time .
Last edited by Dirtymaid; Mar 5, 2025 at 07:04 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,315
From: Slightly off center
Historically back in the day, whenever that was, people have always had trouble getting the aftermarket EGRs to play nicely with the S car engines.
If the pintle is still sticking after cleaning, let it soak overnight.
This is what I was getting at when I said "if you're sure it is clean, clean it one more time."
As for the ticking noise, please take a cell phone video with audio where you are moving the phone around, very close to the intake manifold, head, EGR, fuel injectors. A video without the tapping would also be extremely helpful.
I know it's not located where you are now indicating the source of the noise to be, but have you ever checked or replaced the PCV valve?
Also, take a pop can and cut out a block off plate to cover the EGR ports. Bolt it in place in place of the EGR so that it approximates a closed EGR valve. Doesn't have to fit perfectly. You'll see what I mean. This is so that the EGR is completely out of the system and the equivalent state is closed. It may help with tracking down the cause of the tapping noise. Video of this for comparison would be awesome.
If the pintle is still sticking after cleaning, let it soak overnight.
This is what I was getting at when I said "if you're sure it is clean, clean it one more time."
As for the ticking noise, please take a cell phone video with audio where you are moving the phone around, very close to the intake manifold, head, EGR, fuel injectors. A video without the tapping would also be extremely helpful.
I know it's not located where you are now indicating the source of the noise to be, but have you ever checked or replaced the PCV valve?
Also, take a pop can and cut out a block off plate to cover the EGR ports. Bolt it in place in place of the EGR so that it approximates a closed EGR valve. Doesn't have to fit perfectly. You'll see what I mean. This is so that the EGR is completely out of the system and the equivalent state is closed. It may help with tracking down the cause of the tapping noise. Video of this for comparison would be awesome.