Hello! Just found this forum and hoping I can get some pointers to solve its problem. I've got an SL2, with about 174k miles on it, and it's having a stalling problem.
Previously it would run well for short distances, and on long drives, but after a drive of more than an hour, it would act like it wanted to stall whenever I came to a stop. It's had this problem before, in 2015 and in april of this year
In june 2015 I had the idle air control valve replaced, and a fuel decarbonization done at firestone. This seemed to fix the problem, and it was able to drive from tulsa to ohio.
In april 2016, I had the spark plugs, the ignition module, the coolant temp sensor, the air vacuum valve and solenoid all replaced (also at firestone), which took care of the problem until recently.
I drove about 2 hours with it (highway at night with headlights on), and when I finally stopped at a traffic light, it began to act like it wanted to stall, but when I started to pull away from the light and finish driving to my apartment, it felt like the engine had lost a significant amount of power. By the time I got all the way to the lot it would suddenly have the tachometer shoot up ~1000 when I pushed down on the gas, and acted like it wanted to stall while still in motion.
Normally when i park and leave it for a few hours the stalling issue stopped, but I just went to move it after letting it sit 4 days and it was having the same massive power loss.
The battery is good, checked it with a multimeter almost immediately after stopping. After a long drive I can hear the engine clicking after it's been shut off, but I'm assuming this has mostly to do with the temperature.
Please help! I don't want to loose my favorite car

 

Sounds like you've invested a lot of time and money into your Saturn. Saturn owners are a devoted bunch!

First thing I would do is to check to see if the car is throwing codes. After that, I would check to see that the intake is clean (always a good thing for a high-mileage Saturn). These two things will give our professionals more info on your car and help with their diagnosis.

Someone will engine-specific knowledge will chime in pretty soon. In the meantime, browse the SL section of the forum. Odds are there has been someone with your problem here before! Thanks for joining our merry little band and good luck!

 

What year is your car? (must be 98+ to have smog stuff on it)

1) The ignition module should not need replacing unless it is traced to be the cause of misses and such. NOT part of a normal tuneup. If you had a miss, you'd check plug, plug wires, coil packs first. But you don't have a miss -- unless you had a misfire code or an ICM code you did not mention.

Plugs should be NGK coppers not exoticum tipped 11 pronged spiders.

2) The coolant temp sensor should have been replaced long ago with the 2nd style brass tipped replacement. Unless you were having instances where the fan by the radiator was not turning on at high temps or the car was hard to start when cold/restart wen hot, no need to go there. Unless they thought the engine might be trying to stall at idle from too rich a fuel mix at that high an engine temp due to the fact that when most ECTS's go bad, the PCM thinks the coolant temp is -40 and the car runs excessively rich.

Should have used a GM sourced ECTS. Google Saturn ECTS and find out why people are so **** about this one part.

3) Air Vacuum Valve and solenoid

I'm assuming you mean these are from the Secondary Air Injection System and are in use for about 10 seconds upon startup. That's it. Would also only be flagged for attention if it was throwing something like a P0410 code -- again you did not mention any codes. Thoroughly unrelated to any stalling issues of your type.

4)Sounds to me with accel and decel issues your EGR valve and the passages it connects to are plugged up w carbon and not allowing the moving part inside to work properly. This usually sets a code but not always.

It cam be removed and cleaned but the passages must also be cleaned or the issue will quickly reoccur.

>>>try unplugging the electrical connector at the EGR solenoid but only AFTER you have gotten the present codes read (Go to autozone or similar and get them read FOR FREE) since unplugging will set its own code.

Questions:
1) Did you have any codes in the past (found by the shop) that prompted the work they did? If so. please list them here as Pxxxx where the x's are numbers. They should be on your invoice.

2) Do you have any codes now (SES light on)? Go to autozone or similar and get them read FOR FREE. Post the Pxxxx part, not the description.

I won't pass judgement on your mechanics until after you indicate if and what codes it was throwing.

 

The car is a 2001
In tulsa 2015, the codes were P0410, P1599, P0508
In 2016 the codes were P0341, P0410
There haven't been any codes thrown since the problem restarted (which I also found somewhat odd).

 

to be clear:

What codes is the car showing right now?
You said there haven't been any codes thrown since the problem started again, but were the old ones cleared?

Is your SES light currently on?

Go to Autozone and get the codes read anyway. There are codes called "pending" codes that the PCM will set if it thinks something MIGHT be wrong but needs to verify it a few more times. They will be stored but will not light up the SES until the PCM confirms that it thinks the problem is real. If there are pending codes, we'll have an idea of which way to jump.

 

I agree with derf. You need to get it checked for codes and get back to us. I'm also leaning towards an EGR related problem, but without codes, you could spend a LOT of money on maybes. I think Firestone probably already had you spend money you didn't need to, but that's a moot point.

 

P0410 Secondary Air Injection System Malfunction

The Secondary Air System pumps outside fresh air into the Exhaust System during cold engine start up. This additional air helps burn up the highly rich exhaust emissions that are produced when the engine is warming up. The Secondary Air System typically has an Air Pump and some tubes or plumbing to route the air. The system also has a solenoid and Check Valve(s) to control the air flow.

In some cases, the engine may hesitate on acceleration.

Common Causes/Troubleshooting

Many Saturn vehicles set a code P0410 due to a restricted air passage in the cylinder head

When a code P0410 is set, the PCM is not seeing the front oxygen sensor voltage drop sufficiently when the Air Pump is supposed to be adding outside air in to the exhaust system to burn off the excessive HCs and CO that are created during the cold start of an engine. One should test the system with a data streaming scan tool, during a stone cold start up of the engine.

Cold start the vehicle and watch the front oxygen sensor(s) on the scan tool data stream. After about 5-10 seconds, you should hear the secondary air pump start, it actually sounds like a vacuum cleaner running under the hood. Just as the Air Pump kicks in, the front oxygen sensor(s) voltage should go to less than .125 volts ( 125 millivolts ). If this does not happen, then you have verified a fault condition in the SAS or Secondary Air System.

If you do not hear the Air Pump Motor start, then check the SAS Air Pump and relay.
If you hear the motor, inspect the components that control the Air delivery such as the Check Valve Solenoid, the Check Valve and the rubber hoses, metal piping and passages.
On Saturn vehicles with the metal air pipe that connects to the cylinder head, if the air pump is running but the oxygen sensor voltage does not change, remove the metal air pipe that goes in to the cylinder head and inspect the air passage to see if the passage is plugged or restricted.



P0508 Idle Air Control System Circuit Low


Possible symptoms
Rough or erratic Idle Speed
Hard starting


Description

The Engine Control Module (ECM) controls the engine idle speed to a specified level through the fine adjustment of the air, which is let into the intake manifold, by operating the electric throttle control actuator. The operating of the throttle valve is varied to allow for optimum control of the engine idling speed. The ECM calculates the actual engine speed from signals of crankshaft position sensor (CKP) and camshaft position sensor (CMP). The ECM controls the electric throttle control actuator so that the engine speed coincides with the target value memorized in the ECM. The target engine speed is the lowest speed at which the engine can operate steadily. The optimum value stored in the ECM is determined by taking into consideration various engine conditions, such as during warming up, deceleration, and engine load (air conditioner, power steering and cooling fan operation, etc.)

This code will set if the sensing current of your IAC is less than 175mA or so. ISsue will be with wiring to/from PCM. the PCM itself, or the IAC itself.
If wiring ok and current low, replace IAC.



P1599 Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected -- ummm, thanks, didn't notice..
--------------
So sounds like IAC valve was likely bad. Some can be disassembled and cleaned but that is water over the bridge. Near stalls triggered the 1599. and the 3rd gen Saturn S cars are known to be problematic when it comes to the Secondary Air Injection System b c the metal tube gets clogged w carbon and the passages in the head do as well

No idea how their work from 2015 would have cleared the P0410 issue.
-----------------

It sounds like the second time 0410 led to finding out that the air pump itself was not working. Not knowing if it was a solenoid or actual valve issue, the mechanics replaced both.
I think this cleared your P4010 because the carbon buildup in the system was n't bad enough to cause issues---full time issues. But it will continue to plague you until the metal pipe passages and the passages in the head are cleared out.

Ignition module seems fishy -- could have been just a bad wire issue, but again, doesn't matter now.

So since you have a history of recurent P0140's I'm going to put my bet on the secondary air passages in the metal tube and in the head being gunked up w carbon. Won't rule out EGR yet.

 

Because I know there's little more annoying than having a similar problem and finding someone who solved the answer without a description of the issue https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wisdom_of_the_ancients.png
After taking it to the local repair shop, they tested the parts firestone installed (even though I didn't tell them what the parts were), and said they performed fine. They figured out the issue was my spark plug wires weren't making a great connection with the spark plugs. $115 later everything is back to normal.
Thanks for all your advice

 

Well, I sure hope that cures your problem. It seems like someone just needed to seat the wires on the plugs. They charged you $115 for THAT? Or did they put some new plug wires on for you?

 

If you had no codes, there was no active misfire.
OLD p0341 is ignition related and usually plugs wires or coils.
If it is misfiring the PCM WILL throw a code.

So I'm thinking you just had weak spark in the cyls and they cleaned up the connections and put in new plugs. NOT NgK coppers. So be it.

So I do not believe this episode to be related to the previous.

Glad your problem is solved.