Saturn S Series Sedan SL, SL1, and SL2

please help 1.9 sohc misfire

  #1  
Old 01-07-2016, 08:59 PM
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Default please help 1.9 sohc misfire

my 99 1.9 sohc is miss firing only at cylinder 2 changed plug,coil and wires there is no spark at the coil 2 is dead while the other three are fine will a Ignition Control Module fail only at one tower
 
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Old 01-07-2016, 10:59 PM
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Please don't tack your post onto someone else's thread.

Start your own. I did so for you. I will not do so again.

Have you physically swapped coil positions to determine if the lack of spark moves or stays where it is? What is the result of this test?
 
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by derf
Please don't tack your post onto someone else's thread.

Start your own. I did so for you. I will not do so again.

Have you physically swapped coil positions to determine if the lack of spark moves or stays where it is? What is the result of this test?
Thank you I couldn't figure it out , and yes I changed both coils and swapped them and same result no spark on cylinder 2, third tower
 
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Old 01-08-2016, 12:30 PM
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What is the resistance of the #2 spark plug wire? Can you swap #3 for #2 wire (is there enough slack to reach?)

Just want to be 100% positive before condemning the ICM. So here are some **** retentive questions:
Do you have stock wires on there or aftermarket? What plugs? Stock NGKs? How many miles on each?

Do you have a recurring P0302 after clearing and a blinking SES light while driving?
 
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Old 01-08-2016, 02:36 PM
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How are you determining that there is no spark on #2. If you are getting a P0302 and that is your only indication, that does not mean that there is no spark. It means that there is a misfire.

This car uses a lost spark ignition system. There is one coil for two sparkplugs. Each coil uses an ungrounded secondary. It is not an autotransformer that is used on single coil and coil on plug systems. Current has to flow through both towers of the coil or neither plug fires.

The computer is monitoring the spark amplitude (voltage) and duration to determine if one cylinder is not firing like all the others. If the characteristics are off by enough, it will set a misfire code for that cylinder.

First step is to take an old spark plug, plug the wire into it and lay it on the valve cover. The have someone crank the engine and look for a spark across the tip. I suspect that you will see one. After that, you will need to do a compression test and/or a cylinder leak down test. If that is good, then you will need to do a noid test on each of the injectors. If the noid test passes, then I'd recommend that you pull the fuel rail and swap two of the injectors and see if the problem moves.

Edit: If your the type that likes to throw parts at the problem without testing, which has its place when the part is cheaper than the test, just replace the #2 injector.
 

Last edited by keith; 01-08-2016 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 01-08-2016, 03:24 PM
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Agree w Keith. Compression test was my next suggestion once we ruled out
wires and potential plug goofiness, and you confirmed the P0302 behavior I asked about in my last post, ensuring that the PCM is interpreting it as a misfire based on its criteria (per Keith).
 
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Old 01-08-2016, 05:27 PM
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i have a spark tester not to mention i could hold it in my hand, while running shows the spark on the other three i changed the wire set (duralast) first thinking that was it then the coils when went with new ones not used an plugs (ngk) compression is good and not the problem
 
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Old 01-08-2016, 06:20 PM
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at frist i thought it was a the injectors but i did pull the fuel rail and molve them around still at cylinder 2
 
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Old 01-08-2016, 11:44 PM
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You have still not answered the code related questions I've asked....

1) Do you get a P0302 OBD II code and an illuminated Service Engine soon light?
2) When cleared, does the code keep returning?
3) When driven, is the illuminated Service Engine Soon light flashing?

Also,

4) What is the measured resistance across the terminals of each individual coil pack?

5) What is he gap on the #2 plug?
6) You said you tried a new plug. Was it the same identical plug as the other 3?
 

Last edited by derf; 01-08-2016 at 11:49 PM.
  #10  
Old 01-09-2016, 01:23 PM
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Moving the injectors will identify a bad injector, but you are still using the same wires and connectors on the car side, this is why you need to use a noid light on the injectors. An alternative if you have good hearing is to get one of those stethoscopes or a piece of hollow tubing that you hold up to the injector and listen for the solenoid clicking.

You could have a broken wire from the PCM to the injector.

Also forget the spark tester if it is one of those you hold against the wire and look for the neon tube to flash. If it is the type that looks like a spark plug with an alligator clip on the side, OK. If not, use a known good old plug laying on the head or pull the plug from the #2 cylinder and lay it on the head.
 

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