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-   -   95 Saturn SL1 no start (https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/saturn-s-series-sedan-27/95-saturn-sl1-no-start-10986/)

Kman222 06-06-2017 11:19 PM

95 Saturn SL1 no start
 
Hey I just replaced the engine on a 95 Saturn SL1 1.9 liter single overhead cam OBD1 car. It had a check engine light when I got it running, I did not have an OBD1 scanner so I jumped pins 1 & 2 on the port to get the check engine light to flash to give me the code. Instead of check engine light flashing the traction control light came on in the cooling fans kicked on with the ignition in the accessory position engine not running. Now the vehicle will not crank. I checked the fuses they are fine. I checked for power at the starter it has power. I replaced the PCM thinking that was the issue still no start. I'm at a loss if anyone can help please message me tell me where to look next. This car does not have a starter relay I already checked.

Rubehayseed 06-07-2017 07:29 AM

What do you consider pins 1&2 on the data link? It's the last two on the top right, IIRC. I use a paper clip and insert it, then turn the key to the start position. Is that what you did? Does this car have an IOD fuse somewhere? I don't own a Saturn anymore, so don't know about this.

derf 06-07-2017 02:05 PM

Rube's question is right on.

Please describe the physical location of the two pins you connected.

Oh hell let me get the book
----------------------
Diagnostic Mode:

Jumper pins A (TOP RIGHT pin of connector) and B (pin directly to the LEFT of pin A). Jumper must be in place BEFORE turning ignition. Turn ignition switch to ON (not crank, car must NOT BE RUNNING), The Service Engine SOON light should flash Once =1, pause, then twice =2, This is code 12, meaning start of diag session. Three code 12's are displayed at the start. All codes present are 2 digit codes and will display in this manner (3x's each). If you have A/Trans codes, Fault 11 will show last, after which the "shift to D2" light will flash he tranny codes.
When all codes have been displayed, Code 12 is repeated to signal end of code display.

After all codes are displayed, all output devices are driven in sequence, including the fan, for diagnosis, with the exception of the fuel pump.
----------------------
Field Service Mode

With the jumper in place, the car can be started and it will enter Field Service Mode, where, after the PCM goes closed loop, the Service Engine Soon light can be used to monitor lean vs rich operation. Lamp on most of the time, running rich, lamp off most of the time, running lean.
--------------------

If you had the correct two pins connected with the key in ACC, you would not have entered either Diag or Field Service mode. Nothing should have happened. I'm guessing you crossed two circuits by connecting two pins that are live pins that should never be connected. Probably grounded out something.
_____
Pull the IGN 1, 2, 3 and 4 fuses (some are under hood I think one is in the center console JB, and put the original PCM back in there.
_____
I'm fairly confident one or more of the IGN fuses is blown. Do not go by visual inspection of the fuses. Ohmmeter only. There are so many circuits sharing those fuses that it is likely one of them being fried is inhibiting starting

It is also possible you fried the starter solenoid which would keep the starter from engaging. But that is a guess for now.

Start with the simple stuff above.

FYI: 95 PCMs are YEAR AND MODEL SPECIFIC. Meaning a 96 PCM will not work, nor will a PCM from a 95 SC2 A/T or 5 speed. I think you need a PCM from a 95 SL1 A/T if you were going to replace it.

Kman222 06-08-2017 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by derf (Post 57540)
Rube's question is right on.

Please describe the physical location of the two pins you connected.

Oh hell let me get the book
----------------------
Diagnostic Mode:

Jumper pins A (TOP RIGHT pin of connector) and B (pin directly to the LEFT of pin A). Jumper must be in place BEFORE turning ignition. Turn ignition switch to ON (not crank, car must NOT BE RUNNING), The Service Engine SOON light should flash Once =1, pause, then twice =2, This is code 12, meaning start of diag session. Three code 12's are displayed at the start. All codes present are 2 digit codes and will display in this manner (3x's each). If you have A/Trans codes, Fault 11 will show last, after which the "shift to D2" light will flash he tranny codes.
When all codes have been displayed, Code 12 is repeated to signal end of code display.

After all codes are displayed, all output devices are driven in sequence, including the fan, for diagnosis, with the exception of the fuel pump.
----------------------
Field Service Mode

With the jumper in place, the car can be started and it will enter Field Service Mode, where, after the PCM goes closed loop, the Service Engine Soon light can be used to monitor lean vs rich operation. Lamp on most of the time, running rich, lamp off most of the time, running lean.
--------------------

If you had the correct two pins connected with the key in ACC, you would not have entered either Diag or Field Service mode. Nothing should have happened. I'm guessing you crossed two circuits by connecting two pins that are live pins that should never be connected. Probably grounded out something.
_____
Pull the IGN 1, 2, 3 and 4 fuses (some are under hood I think one is in the center console JB, and put the original PCM back in there.
_____
I'm fairly confident one or more of the IGN fuses is blown. Do not go by visual inspection of the fuses. Ohmmeter only. There are so many circuits sharing those fuses that it is likely one of them being fried is inhibiting starting

It is also possible you fried the starter solenoid which would keep the starter from engaging. But that is a guess for now.

Start with the simple stuff above.

FYI: 95 PCMs are YEAR AND MODEL SPECIFIC. Meaning a 96 PCM will not work, nor will a PCM from a 95 SC2 A/T or 5 speed. I think you need a PCM from a 95 SL1 A/T if you were going to replace it.

The top right two pins are the ones I jumped, I used a test light on all the fuses inside and out, also turned ignition on and jumped the starter solenoid and heard it engage. So I believe the starter is fine and I matched every number on the pcm that I received to the old one, they are identical. The only thing I have not tested was the relays because I'm limited on tools for that and not sure honestly how to test the relays. There's no starter or ignition relay in this specific model Saturn. It's a 95 SOHC 1.9 liter A/T with no power accessories Base model. Any other info would be much appreciated, if you need any more specifics please ask. Trying to rectify this issue asap

Rubehayseed 06-08-2017 01:47 PM

You might just look at your relays and if there's two with the same #, swap them and see if it starts.

02 LW300 06-08-2017 10:23 PM

jumped the starter solenoid and heard it engage. So did the starter spin the engine or only push the drive into the flywheel? If you jump the small wire to the big wire at the solenoid the starter should spin the engine.

derf 06-09-2017 12:31 AM

Even if the PCM's are identical, they are likely not programmed to control the same options. I'm not saying this is necessarily the problem, but I would put the orig PCM back in.
-------------------------
Also: I just realized: If your ign was in the ACC position, it would be impossible for you to see anything on the dash light up and have the fans cycle-- that only happens in the ON/RUN position. It must have been in the RUN position. If you jumpered the terminals with the key in the ON position, I'm really not sure what happens.

Since there is no starter or ign relay and you are getting V at the purple wire at the starter it should start per Andy's comment ---unless per chance did you kill your battery during troubleshooting?

What is the resting V across your battery right now?

derf 06-09-2017 09:10 AM

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