1995 sw2 185k was running fine.....
 

Hello, I bought this 95 sw2 5 speed last winter and it had been running good despite burning about 2 quarts of oil per tank of gas. Since buying it the ac pump went bad and I put a delete kit in, replaced the wheel bearings, hubs, tie rod ends, and lower control arms/ball joints, snd one other misc stuff that has all added into the amount that I care about this car. I have a blanket laid across the back as the seats fold down so my 80lb German shepherd has his own rolling bed when we go somewhere, and I honestly just love driving the car as wiwrd as it sounds. I actually.look forward to driving it. I had a 5speed awd eclipse gsx turbo when I was in college and also a 5speed 88 ford ranger, so it's probably just that I missed the shifting aspect of driving. But the car is so zippy.and gets around 33 mpg each tank that I really don't want to have to.scrap it..

anyways, the symptoms came out of nowhere. My fiance picked me up from work in it and said that it was running rough. It chugged and she said it felt like it.had no power.

I got it home and took the egr valve off.and cleaned it, which seemed tp be working fine. Put it back on, no fix. I read on here that the ects goes bad because it's made from plastic but it looked as if the one that was in there was a dealer bought replacement as it had no plastic on it and also had the red ring of rtv like I have seen on threads on here.

so I pulled the plugs and all 4 were dripping oil.... I called my friend that is a manager at Napa and he loomed up that if it was run low on oil that the valves could be burnt?

So as of now its all back together, I put new plugs in, it is really rough starting I.have to pump the throttle and then when it finally stays running the motor shakes pretty bad...

when it is running and I pull the spark plug wires off one by one, the far left two have little affect on the engine running but the two on.the drivers side when removed cause the car to stall. All 4 plugs have spark going to them...

That's as far as I really have the knowledge to go, hope somebody has some advice on what else my problem could be.

Read the post ETCS and it's connector. Oh and looking at it does not mean it good or bad. Plasitc?

https://www.saturnforum.com/forum/general-tech-help-13/etcs-its-connnector-6417/

Stop in the new member area and give yourself an introduction. When your done with that open the USER CP and add your first name, location, and car info into your "signature".

TWO quarts of oil per tank of gas? Plugs are DRIPPING oil ??

Sorry, but that engine is gonna have to come apart, and have serious work ...

Oh, and welcome to the Forum

Yep, plugs dripping oil are not a good sign. You've either got some very faulty valves or your rings are shot. My bet is the rings.

I agree with OceanArcher, I think he is right, but before getting a new engine or rebuilding this one, take off the valve cover and see if the oil is draining back into the pan OK. There are holes for draining back the oil, if they are plugged up, the oil level will rise under the valve covers until it covers the valve stems. From there, it will get sucked into the engine.

If your not sure, a build up of gunk under the valve covers would be a clue. If it is pretty clean under there, then the drain holes are probably OK.

A compression check is in order as well given that two plugs when pulled have little to no effect. post all 4 cyl readings here.

Do this before you spend the money on the ects

The plastic (resin) part of the ects is what is inserted inside the head. Can't see it w/o removing it. Bad design, they all cracked.

IF you replace the ECTS:
Order a new one from gm dealer w connector and have it on hand when you pull the old one lest you leak antifreeze all over the place.
That is a sheetload of oil. 2q per 400 mi comes to about 14q per 3000 mi -- which is the thirstiest saturn that runs with no smoke that I've ever heard of.

I had tthe ects out and it looked to be an aftermarket one by the pictures I've seen in forums. There was no plastic part at all it was all gold colored. It had a red ring around the threads too.

I will do a compression test today and see what that comes up with. I never said it didn't smoke but it ran smooth. Lots of smoke when I would give it any gokd amount of throttle.

If you're getting smoke and your plugs are oil soaked, it's time for a rebuild or at least a ring job.

How extensive/expensive is a ring job vs a rebuild?

Are you up to trying a few tricks before starting an overhaul (rings and valves, and maybe bearings)?

First check the oil drain back holes as I posted above. If they are ok, then remove all the plugs. Turn the engine until all the pistons are at about the same level. You can insert a stick in each hole to determine this. It doesn't have to be exact. Then add a couple ounces of SeaFoam to each cylinder and let it soak overnight.

SeaFoam contains a stoddard oil which will loosen and dissolve the crud that may be causing the rings to stick. You could also use an oil called BreakFree and it may work a little better, but it is fairly expensive. You can find it at most gun shops because it is a great ordinance oil.

After sitting over night, crank the engine with the plugs out to get any excess oil out. Trapped oil can cause hydrolock, but most, if not all the oil will have seeped down around the rings. This oil can stay in the crankcase, it won't hurt anything. Some people add SeaFoam to their regular oil at every oil change but I am personally not a fan of additives unless I have a specific need for them.

Chances of this working are slim, but if it does, look at how much money you will save. Even if it does work, it may only work for a little while, you'll end up doing the overhaul anyway. But the cost and effort is low.

I don't know anyone personally that the SeaFoam (BreakFree or Marval Mystery Oil, etc) worked for but I have heard people claim that they knew someone that it did work for. I do have personal experience with clogged oil drain back holes. I overhauled an engine for a family friend that had perfectly good rings and valves in it, the oil drain back holes were plugged because she never changed her oil.

i do a complete engine rebuild thats valves, bearings and rings for 1000 dollars plus parts

Ok, so I swapped out the ects and plug with some from oreilly auto parts (the new one had white plastic on each end vs the one that came out being all solid brass) and that didn't have an affect on anything..

Still wondering why the two cylinders on the left as you look at the motor have no affect on it running when I pull the plug wires off, while the two on the drivers side stall the engine immediately? Wouldn't that be a red flag as some ignition problem?

Anyways I went ahead and pulled the valve cover off, low and behold one of the two star bit bolts holding the cover on is snapped off and there was a good deposit of oil all over the back of the motor..... could this be the reason why I was going through two quarts of oil per tank while the car was running smooth?

Not sure where to go from here, I will eventually have to get that snapped bolt out of the hole when it gets reassembled, but given the symptoms of the rough running and stalling via the two drivers side most plug wires being pulled, should I try something there?

Broken valve cover bolt will definitely leak oil all over the engine. You drill that sum beech out, replace the broken bolt and valve cover gasket and you may solve the oil usage problem. The O'Reilly sensor is a piece of crap as are most after market ones. PM me your address and I'll send you the brass one I replaced even though I didn't need to. No charge to you. All you'll have to do is put some teflon tape on it before you install it.

the reason those 2 plugs have no affect on the engine when running is caust there whats called "dead cylinders" could be something cheap as bad plugs, wires o coil pack, however since the plugs are oil soaked its either head gasket, valves or rings, the plugs go ninto the engine so the messed u valve cover gasket couldnt reach the part that fires into the cylinder, my advice if its the valves, a rebuilt head is 300 tops on ebay plus head instal kit

Any ideas what to check for the rough running and cylinder problems?

What could explain the compustion chamber and plugs dripping wet with oil then?

1. Oil not draining back to the pan due to plugged drain back holes.

2. Stuck oil control rings due to carbon build up, sometimes putting a stoddard oil in the cylinders overnight fixes this.

3. Worn compression rings.

How many drain back holes are there under the valve cover and where are they? Can't really tell with my newbie eyes...

If I do the stoddard oil in the cylinder, how do I get the pistons to be even height in the cylinders like was previously mentioned?

If it needs new rings, how hard of a job is that? I have a backup car right now to drive to work and back so I can chip away at it, love fixing things myself at my own pace...

But with my fiance and I just beginning our venture of starting a functional fitness gym here in our town I'll definitely be more busy than usual...

Thanks for the help guys.

Good luck with your new business venture, Mr Paul.

I believe someone outlined a method for getting the cylinders to equal levels somewhere in this thread ...

turn the engine as in turn the key and just wait till theyre about level? or do it manually somehow?

compression test results?

The pistons don't have to exactly the same height, just somewhere near. Use a stick in the spark plug hole.

I agree with Keith on using a stick. Since the middle two pistons travel together and one and four travel together, get a small stick or dowel or even less desirable, a long thin screwdriver and remove all of your sparkplugs. Put your stick in the hole for #2 or 3 and rotate the engine by hand. When the piston hits the bottom of the stroke and starts to come up, make a mark on the stick. Continue to rotate the engine and when the piston reaches the top of the stroke and and starts to go down again, make another mark on the stick. Pull the stick out and measure the distance between the marks and make another one in the center between the two. Put the stick back in the hole and rotate the engine until you hit the center mark. NOW all of your pistons are in the same position and you can add equal amounts of what you want to into each cylinder. I can't make it any easier for you to understand than this.

Haven't gotten my buddy with a compression tester over yet, but I am going to drill out the valve cover bolt that was snapped off and i'm guessing was the problem to why I was going through two quarts of oil per tank.

The gasket looks good, can I reuse it with some rtv red?

And where are the oil drainback holes at under the valve cover? I can't find them...

ya can get the valve cover bolt from local salvage yard for free however the gasket id recomend blue rtv its oil safe and i would just recomend a new gasket, there only like 15 dollars tops

Damn, Paul. I wish I had known you needed that bolt, but I apparently didn't think about that. I could have sent you one along with the ECTS. If you have any problem finding one, let me know. We can work something out, I'm sure. Maybe you pay the postage and make sure it's enough to buy me a beer!

I would not use any RTV on this. My first preference would be for a new gasket, second would be for Permatex "The Right Stuff". It is far superior for oil than any RTV product.

Haha damn rub, yea I'll see if I can get it around here free or cheap and if not ill let ya know. I have one of those bolt extractor kits hopefully it works.

Any word on where the drainback holes are? It's a little slushy under there.. but I don't know where to look.

It doesn't show them in the FSM, but the drain back holes are going to be somewhere near the cover rail (where the valve cover gasket contacts the head) and generally between each cylinder, somewhere near the head bolts.

Often they are on the exhaust side, but not necessarily. They really should be visible. Pour a can of oil over the head and see where it goes to drain down into the pan. When you see the area, you should be able to drop a long thin screwdriver down into the hole (don't let go if the handle is thin).

If it is so sludgy that you can't see the drain back holes, you do have a problem, just start cleaning out the sludge until you find them.

Yep, Keith has a good suggestion on how to find them and the general area of other cars that I have pulled the heads from. I've not pulled the head on a Saturn. YET.

after 265k on mine, I haven't even pulled the valve cover off.

No telling how many miles are on mine, either since the odometer hasn't worked in over ten years according to the title I got with it. BUT someone has replaced the head gasket, valve cover gasket and water pump at some recent point in time. Lucky me!

Hey Mr.paulbrockwood
Maybe you can stop in the new member area and give yourself a proper introduction, from there go to the USER CP top left and add your first name, location, and car to your "signature".

I guess not.

Paul's been pretty busy lately, Joe. I'm sure he'll fill in the proper stuff when he gets a chance. Here's part of a PM I got from him on Monday." Sorry for the delay. We've been real busy with the gym closing and starting to clear the building, take down a wall, and start painting, as well as beginnging to work on the logo's and all the managerial stuff for the gym". I'm guessing he must have at least a part interest in a gym and they're doing a remodel. I've done that kind of work before, (building remodel, not a gym) and it is very time consuming. Let's wait and see what he does. At least a few more days anyway.