I have a 2008 Saturn Outlook XR that sat on a Copart storage yard for 3 years before auction. I Got it as a “Normal Wear” car with no accidents on the Carfax for $500.

So far I have Replaced the fuel pump, spark plugs, coil packs, Upper Intake gasket, PCV (Breather Valve & hoses), Brand New Duralast Gold Battery, Air filter, and the Oil & Filter... I have also cleaned the Throttle Body, intake valves, and M.A.F sensor with the correct spray for each.

It cranks but will not start without the Starter spray. I have to hold the spray button down constantly for the car to stay on. If I stop spraying, the car instantly dies. I checked the fuel pressure also and it is spraying correctly. It has No check engine codes when I plug in my OBD2 reader.

Another issue I noticed is that the Battery dies after being connected to the car for about 20-30 minutes (while turned off). I have had 1st battery (brand new) tested and it drained completely after leaving it in the car overnight with just the "Negative" cable connected. I went back into Autozone and the Replaced the battery for free. The new battery is doing the exact same thing. It powers up everything in the car. When I turn the key to ACC position, I can hear the new Fuel pump turning on. If I take the key out and let the car sit over night with battery in it, The battery dies completely (autozone cannot recharge it only replace).

I used my Tester to test the Volts on the Alternator and it is reading 12.6V just like the Battery, So I assume that means it is working. All of the fuses and Relays are working properly as well.

Before I put another penny into this car buying parts to "see" if it will work.. I decided to come join the Saturn Forum and ask for some better advice from people with more knowledge about these sorts of issues.

Only thing I have not tried yet is draining the "Gas tank" and replacing the old fuel with new Gasoline.

My question: Can 3 year old Gasoline in a car stop it from starting? Should I drain it? It is 3/4th of the way full of old gasoline and I do not know how to dispose of it properly.. What should I do, Add more Gas to the old Gas? or Siphon the Old gas out first?

Thank You in advance! Any and All advice is truly appreciated. I have been on Youtube over 3 weeks trying to fix it using different methods mostly from ChrisFix.

 

0) Have you done a compression test?
Have you checked the air intake and filter box for obstructions (rodent nests and beehives, etc)?

A) 3-year-old gas does not count as gas in my book. It breaks down into other compounds that are not flammable and I believe will gum up your entire fuel system.

Subjecting the new fuel pump to old gas is not user-friendly.

Most vehicles these days have an "anti-siphon" functionality built into the filler neck or tank. You have likely 3 choices:
1) drop the tank, remove the fuel pump and use a hand pump or a siphon to transfer out all of the fuel into fuel-safe approved containers for disposal. Then rinse with new gas and dump out into said containers.
2) disconnect the fuel line heading to the engine wherever the first connector is (usually at or near the pump), run the line into an approved container, and enable the fuel pump to run at will by jumping the fuel relay contacts with the key in ON position.

I am not sure if today's pumps are 100% duty cycle so I would give it a rest every minute or so to keep from burning up the pump. This is especially important as the fuel level in the tank gets below 1/4 as the fuel pump is no longer completely surrounded by gas to dissipate the heat.

3) Disconnect the fuel line at the rail, after the Schraeder test port, and repeatedly prime the fuel system. This will push a small amount of gas out on each cycle. Takes forever.
3a) If you have a way to safely keep the Schrader valve core depressed (or know how to remove and reinstall the core, I suppose you could get a continuous drain at the front subject to the same precautions as 2) above

Keep it simple and just drop the tank.



B) If your alternator and battery are reading 12.6V with the vehicle running, your alternator has 0 output and is not charging the battery.
Combined with the overnight draining of the battery, I suspect the output stage of the alternator is damaged such that the charge is feeding back out of the battery, through the damaged alternator output stage, to ground.
Voltage should be approx 14.4 V across the battery and at alternator output.

So I suspect a bad alternator. Remove and have it load tested by Autozone or similar -- it is free.

c) Battery-draining through only the negative cable is unlikely. More likely it drained through the alternator as described above to ground before you ever disconnected the positive lead. Things are not always as they seem.

 

Thank you so much for Replying @derf , I appreciate that!

I did check the Air box and it is clean ( No Leaves or anything), Also replaced the Air filter.

My 2008 Outlook does have the Anti-Siphon inside of the Tank. When I disconnected the filler hose, I thought Gas would go everywhere, But not a single drop came out. I poked a screw driver in there and learned about the anti-siphon feature the hard way lol (Gas started instantly pouring out until I removed the screw driver.)

I have not done a compression test yet and will be going to Autozone to borrow a test kit. (Does the vehicle have to be running to do this test? The car currently does not start but it does crank as if it is trying to start.)

Also, I did not know that Autozone could do a test on Alternators as well! I will take the alternator out right now and bring it with me since it is very easy for me to access and the people at Autozone also stated that they would recommend checking the alternator for draining batteries.
My Alternator was reading 12.6V with the engine turned off. I cannot get it to run long enough to test while running as I have to literally spray starter spray "non-stop" for it to stay on.

Not that I know my 3 year old gasoline is bad as well, I will be draining it and replacing with some fresh gas.. Should I use any fuel additives when doing this? I heard on youtube that it can help when replacing old fuel.

 

WAIT to drain the gas or put in new gas until AFTER the compression test tells you what you're working with.


A compression test is always done on a non running engine.

Yours will be a cold compression test since it doesn't want to run

Search online for how to do a compression test and you will find many good step-by-step procedures. The information below is for the sake of a REMINDER

Pull the fuel pump fuse and the fuel injector fuse so that no fuel enters the cylinders during the test
Remove all spark plugs and test each cylinder a few times using the same number of cranks (by sound). At Least 6.

You can stop and hook up another vehicle w jumper cables if you start to run your battery down

Prop the throttle plate wide open or hold the gas pedal to the floor while cranking -- readings are inaccurate if not at wide-open throttle

Report readings here

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If you insist on doing the gas now, Put BP 93 octane in there. Start with the detergents in that. Any name brand gas should do (93).
Only fill 1/4 tank in case for some reason you need to empty it again or drop the tank.

Do NOT replace the alternator until we see the results of the compression test.

 

Thank You so much! I will try these steps tomorrow and post an update with pictures . I was able to find a couple Youtube videos showing exactly how to do an compression test on this outlook.

 

@derf ,

Update: I went on ahead last night and ordered everything I need to perform the test without going to Autozone. (Amazon Prime Same-Day delivery .)


Here are my Results:


Fuel Pressure Test:



Cylinder #2 Test:


Video of Cylinder #6 Test (So you can hear how it sounds while starting):


How does all of this look? I am getting right at 150PSI on all 6 cylinders, Should I try to replace the fuel next or have the Alternator tested? Any other recommendations?

Thank You very much @derf

 

Great. 2:30 a.m. round two replacing a mostly finished post.

150 sounds low for compression but the readings are even and likely suggest even wear across the cylinders/rings.

Seems to rule out timing chain slippage or breakage on either Bank of cylinders so that's a good thing. No sign of glaring head gasket issue.

When you crank the engine, there is no attempt to fire. You either have no spark or the fuel is crap. I didn't look up the fuel spec for this engine but near 50 psi with the key turned to crank seems reasonable. If however that is the reading with the key turned to accessory, there may be an issue.

But check for spark first at all six plugs.

By the way you should be using stock ACDelco 41107 iridium plugs . Try to get the ones you have in there now to spark during the spark test. Look at rockauto.com for your vehicle at spark plugs and figure out what the Gap should be for whatever is in there. Though there is no guarantee it will fire. I know this from having a friend put the equivalent autolite plugs in a BMW 325i. I've never seen an engine misfire on all six cylinders and still run.

OEM beamer plugs take care of that. Anyway you get my point. Don't go blow $36 unless you have to.

After cranking the vehicle, with the fuses for the fuel injectors and fuel pump reinstalled, do you smell fuel from within the cylinders. You can put the plugs back in hand tight and try that or I suppose you could do it with all the plugs out but you will be misting fuel if it is there so don't get your face too close to it.

I can't remember. Have you checked the crank position sensor CKP? Most modern vehicles will cut spark and fuel if the ECM does not receive a valid signal from the ckp.

Honestly, at the end of the day you do not want to run 3-year-old gasoline through your vehicle so that has to come out at some point soon. Of equal importance, it doesn't matter what is in the tank if there's no spark so that it has to be addressed as well. Pick one and go with it. Draining the gas is more of a pain in the *** but will need to be done no matter what.

Spark test takes 2 minutes per cylinder at most with a buddy cranking while you are under the hood. The plugs that are in there may be fouled from the bad gas. I have no idea.

You make the call. Just leave the alternator out of the discussion for now. What's the mileage on the vehicle? Sorry I keep asking these questions but I am using the Android version of the form and it does not allow me to see the previous posts in this thread.

Perchance, what was the oil level on the dipstick when you checked at the very first time?

 

@derf , Here are some more pictures of everything else I have done so far.



New Iridium Spark plugs x6




Spark plug



New Purge Valve



New Coil Packs



New Upper intake Gaskets installed



New Fuel Pump installed



New PCV installed



New PCV (Breather) Valve & New hoses as well



Here is a video I did Testing for Spark and I couldn’t get it to show anything. (Ordered this little tester on Amazon as well ) .. I’m “guessing” that if the fuel is bad, maybe it won’t spark anyways.

I’m thinking about emptying the fuel later today and replacing it.

2008 Saturn Outlook XR - Spark Test

I have not checked or replaced the Crank Position Sensor (CKP) as of yet.. However the part to replace it is $10.88 ( with same day shipping) and I found the Perfect YouTube video showing me where it’s located . I’m going to go ahead and order / replace it today as well.. (Thank You for mentioning this to me! @derf )



2008 Saturn Outlook XR- Crankshaft Position Sensor


I do have a question about it..

If something was wrong with the CKP, Would it show up on OBD2 reader? I am not getting any error codes and the test are coming back normal. Just wondering.

2008 Saturn Outlook XR - Crankshaft Position Sensor Location & Replacement

Thank you so much for all of your help, tips, & advice! I will definitely keep you updated and I hope this information can also help someone else searching the forums someday. Can’t wait to get it up and running .


p.s I can’t believe mechanic shops want to charge thousands to do the same thing I’m doing for free labor.. parts are much cheaper online for same OEM parts 😁.

 

My apologies. It runs on starting fluid so you know you have spark. This rules out in all likelihood the ckp inhibiting spark and fuel. It does not however rule out a bogus signal from the ckp.

This is why I ask whether certain things have been checked. And I very very rarely recommend for folks to go out and buy parts. Because it is your money not mine. There are ways to check the ckp without replacing it. For $10 I would say it's okay to keep this one on hand as a spare, but please for your own sense of financial well-being and this troubleshooting attempt do not run out and buy parts simply because they come up in discussion. It often makes troubleshooting more difficult because it adds one more variable to the equation which is already complicated enough.

Go for the fuel.

I have no idea what that thing was in the YouTube video trying to check for spark.

Non issue.

I woke up this morning and found that the service limit for compression on this engine is about 140 PSI, and that it should at least sporadically fire down to 90 to 100 PSI. Now off to find the fuel pressure range.

Remember to relieve the fuel pressure in the system at the Schrader valve with a rag over it before you attempt to disconnect lines in the fuel system or drain the tank.

 

Also, continue to think critically throughout this process. Just because I suggest something doesn't necessarily mean that I am correct. The whole spark thing being an example. The engine has run with the current plugs on starter fluid.

Feel free to challenge what I say. The vehicle is in front of you but not in front of me. You know what you have done off the top of your head. I can't remember why I went downstairs 15 seconds ago.

150 to 180 PSI is the average. Service limit is 140.

Fuel pressure 55 to 60 PSI with vehicle running I believe. Once again I cannot see your previous post so I will post this and then look back.

Others say 45 to 50 psi key on engine off so I am not quite sure what to think. Let's try the gas since we know it runs on starter fluid.

When you pull the tank down, see if you can get a good look at the strainer in the tank. It may be gunked up with stuff that has formed out of the 3-year-old gas and may be restricting flow.