Serious MAF issues
 

Hey everyone! I have a 2000 Saturn LS2 with the 3.0 V6. I have been having some Mass Airflow Sensor problems I think. At first, I keep throwing a P0102 code (mass airflow low voltage circuit?) something like that. So I figured I'd clean it out. I got some MAF cleaner at Autozone and cleaned it. Nothing happened. I'd start it up cold in the morning and usually a car starts at about 1.5k rpm's to warm itself up.. Mine goes right to about 550. Right up then quickly down, almost sounding like its gonna die out but then catches itself. So about a month ago I went and bought an used one. Good shape, looked clean and looked nice. Didn't want to clean it because I read you shouldn't, you should just put it in. So I cleared the code, plugged her in, started her up and bam! CEL once again.. Code? P0102. So I've been driving like this for about a month now. 15mpg, 0-60's slower then usual. So I went to another place today and figured before I were to spend $300 on a new one, I'd try one more used one. Even though I don't think its my MAF in the first place. This one is from my car, had 5k miles on it (from a car crash car, rear end totaled) bought for $60. Did the same thing. No cleaning. Plugged her in, cleared the code, start her up. Bam! Same damn thing! Doesn't work. Computer reader 0.00 on the air being pushed by it. I feel like their is something more here.. Any ideas?

Have you tried cleaning the throttle body? What do your spark plugs look like and when was the last time you did a tune up? Check the wiring connector to the plug for the MAF.

what were the MAF output readings for the original and 1st replaced used MAF? (you already told us 2nd was 0)
That piece of information should help us determine if it is a MAF issue or a potential wiring issue.

FYI normal MAF reading at idle is 3 to 7 g/s.

Also, check the "engine control 1" fuse in the underhood junction box

I'm getting 0.50lb/m on full throttle and idle. And what does the fuse have to do with it? I didn't think their was a fuse for a MAF. Before I was getting 0.00 all around. I just bought this new one yesterday (used, new to me like I mentioned) and its reading it but. Not much. Still shooting a P0102. I have a cold air intake but that shouldn't effect one right off... If at all though.

I've recently used SeaFoam in it. Besides the MAF is before the throttle body that shouldn't have anything to do with it. I do usual maintenance on it myself. Checking exhaust and all gaskets, oil changes every 2k miles, this and that. Spark plugs on the V6 are very confusing. Hard to locate, hard to get to.. It seems to be running fine though spark plug wise. I've felt the bad and the good.. She's fine.

Sometimes you can find a faulty MAF just by tapping it with a screwdriver or hammer handle while the car is running. If something is hinky with it, the idle of the engine will change when you tap on it. I still think you need to check your wiring. As far as cleaning the throttle body, Seafoam isn't going to get it done. You should go to Autozone or Advance or where ever you shop and get a can of THROTTLE BODY cleaner, not carb cleaner, and follow the directions. Carb cleaner can strip the protective coating out of the tb.

Trust me.. I've tapped it, touched it, wiggled it (giggity) and nothing's happened. That's like the first thing anyone does. I checked the wires today. Wire 1, and 5 have no power. Wire 2 is getting 5.1v and wire 4 getting 12.3v... That's low right? And I did the cleaner you mentioned today and nothing happened.

I can't help you any further, Corey. I don't have a factory service manual or even a Haynes manual for a Saturn, so I don't know the values.

OA, do you have docs for the L car MAF wiring?

I wish.. My car unfortunately didn't come with crap! Mint condish but no manual nor can I find one. I've looked at fuse diagrams .. Can't find an exact one for the L. We're could I find what your talking about?

Actually, I think Derf was directing that post at OceanArcher.

My bad :p I'm new here!

Sorry - my files are deficient in this area as well. Lemmie run my traps in the morning, to see what I can dig up ....

Sorry - my files are deficient in this area as well. Lemmie run my traps in the morning, to see what I can dig up ....

That would be great thanks!

and I'm no help. I've never had an L Car. Have zero info and have never read the L Car forums. All I can say is buy a service manual, that can't be a bad thing.

I have them!
But I have little clue as to what might be being looked for.
Yes there is a fuse.
It is called the engine control 1 fuse, 10 Amps
the purple wire with the white stripe should have zero volts
The orange wire should have 12 volts
the Grey wire should have 5 volts.
The Tan Wire should have some kind of a variable voltage on it. That is the signal to the engine control computer.
The last wire I don't know, at least from looking at the wiring diagram. It might be some kind of an enable signal to the MAF sensor but I would have to look further. The point here is if Derf or someone knows what they are looking for and can tell me I can look it up.
Why?
I have the service information.

And the comment (yes it is repeated regularly and largely ignored) it would be a good idea to purchase a Haynes, Mitchels or Chiltons service document for one of these cars when trying to work on it.
In this case as a current example anyway, to me the numbers are obvious. two used parts at what? $60.00 plus a new one at $300 or a book at $25.00 used to determine the need for one.
Saturns like many cars as they age and specifically so as the company no longer exists thus the value drops through the bottom did not become any less complex, just cheaper to buy and due to lack of parts, dealers and service? More expensive and harder to maintain.
This is a stock pattern as applied to a now defunct brand name and even more so a problem applied to something that has been badge engineered

Totally gonna double check those in the morning. Well.. When I wake up haha! I'll let you know what their reading and go from their! Thanks a ton!