Starting Issues - 2007 Saturn Ion 3 2.2L Sedan
 

I'm making this a new thread per advice from this post.
I'd appreciate any suggestions as I see the help available here is thoughtful and genuine.

I am having a no-start issue with my 2007 Saturn Ion 3, 2.2L Sedan.

360,000 miles. All mine.
Daily driver, 100 highway miles round trip to work 5 days a week.
I live in the South, near the Gulf Coast. Hot and humid. Never "cold". No road salt.

EDIT
I can do literally anything I want to do with the car, except start it. The light all come on, the radio works, chimes go off, etc.
The Passlock is not the issue as the light doesn't stay on. Just the normal few flashes.

I had a friend of a friend replace my A/C back in July/August 2023. He replaced the compressor, accumulator, and another small part or two.
Within a week of getting it back, I got stranded at the courthouse with a blown ignition fuse (10A). I replaced the fuse and got back home.
After this, it would semi-regularly blow the 10A Ignition fuse (and occasionally a 15A fuse in that spot), but not every single time. I figured I'd get a pack of fuses and replace them as it happened.

The day I got stranded, the first time the ignition fuse blew, the car shut off as I was shifting from Drive to Park. I was at my destination (thankfully), and had already stopped for gas prior to this. It was hot (July/August) and the car had already been driven 40+ miles.
There was one other occasion that the car shut off while shifting from Drive to Park, and luckily I was pulling into my driveway.
That was basically the last time it cranked. Parked my driveway on incline. Couldn't get it into garage to lift it up on jack stands until last week.

Got the car raised up. I've checked basically every cable and connection I can get to. There were 3 connectors near, A/C equipment which, had fluorescent green liquid in them. Like the dye to find A/C refrigerant leaks. I've dried them out the best I could. From memory: the connector near the Brake Fluid Reservoir, the Neutral Safety Switch, and the connector (not Alternator) right above the A/C compressor.

- Battery is new. I even tried cranking with jumper cables connected to my VW (running, so 14V+).
- Starter is good (bench test by me, bench test at O'Reilly). I can jump the Starter with the purple wire post and the battery post, but no actual crank. Starter spins but nothing. Even with someone inside turning the car to "Start".
- Fuses are all currently good
- Relays are all currently good (even have a new spare 3064 to play with).

I've had trouble in the past with the ignition holding onto the key, but not every time. I'd just override with the button. I've tried cranking in Park and Neutral.

Using information from the above referenced post, I can get the car to turn over by jumping pins 30 and 87 on Relay 31. However, it won't actually start. Even with someone inside turning the key to "Start".

When I bought the 3064 relay, I also got a new ignition switch to try, just in case. However, I can't currently get it out to replace it. Trying to find a mini socket wrench.

Thanks in advance, and if anything else is needed, please let me know!

You have a short.

Thanks. Any good places to suggest to look?
Any "usual culprits"?

Relays are not blowing that fuse. You need to look at things that fuse feeds.
Which is blowing?

Operation CHARM: Car repair manuals for everyone.
Home >> Saturn >> 2007 >> ION L4-2.4L >> Repair and Diagnosis >> Powertrain Management >> Diagrams >> Electrical Diagrams

Electrical Diagrams

ENGINE CONTROLS SCHEMATICS

Power, Ground, MIL, and Serial Data


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683252516/




Engine Data Sensor - 5-Volt and Low Reference


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683272234/




Engine Data Sensors - Pressure, Temperature, and MAF/IAT


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683288385/




Engine Data Sensors - HO2S


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683300034/




Engine Data Sensors - APP and TAC


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683308235/




Ignition Controls - Ignition System


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683318739/




Ignition Controls - Sensors


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683330214/




Fuel Controls


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683341783/




EVAP Controls


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683353796/




Controlled/Monitored Subsystem References


https://charm.li/images/DM16Q313/gm160/683365012/





Locations: The locations for the Connectors, Grounds, Splices, and Grommets shown within these diagrams can be found via their numbers at Vehicle Locations. Locations
pro multis · About Operation CHARM

The Ignition Fuse (10A, Fuse 11) was the one that was blowing. Back when it would actually crank/start.
I'm not that great at reading these, and especially tracing from page to page.

I can do literally anything I want to do with the car, except start it. The lights all come on, the radio works, chimes go off, etc.
The Passlock is not the issue (I doubt it) as the light doesn't stay on. Just the normal on for a few seconds at the beginning.

When I try to crank it, the headlights dim while in the "Start" position, even with jumper cables connected to my running VW SUV. But it never turns over or starts.

Oh, wow! I just opened up the links with the diagrams.
Those will be super helpful if/when I can figure out what I'm looking for.

Thanks!

When I bought the new 3064 Relay the other day, I also got a new Ignition Switch.

I replaced the Ignition Switch just now and was expecting to have to do the Passlock relearn. However, I've watched videos of people doing that and my car didn't show anything like that.

I'm trying to attach a picture of my dash with the new Ignition Switch installed, key in "Run", and hooked up to my VW via Jumper Cables.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sat...e6833042b.jpeg

This is the diagram that shows what that feeds.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sat...37a3321502.png

Probably a stupid question, but is that key the one you always use? Perhaps the key is worn out and if you have a spare or could get a new one cut from the VIN and NOT the old key, it would make better contact? IDK, as I'm not a mechanic like Andy or Gary. I'm just trying to think outside the box and from working on my own cars for 50+ years.

I have tried my everyday key, as well as the spare "never-been-used" key. Neither changes things.

Thanks for the thought.

I'm not sure your no-crank issue is directly related to the fuse 11 blowing issue. Looking at the wiring diagrams in this and the other thread, the engine crank circuit is not linked to the ignition circuit at all electrically. My 2007 Ion manual shows the 2.2L engine as still having the integrated ignition control module with the coils in a single unit, but other sources, including the above circuit diagram, show separate coil on plug setup.

In any case, for the cranking issue, I came across the linked YouTube video while searching on the ignition setup. He was experiencing the same symptoms (no crank, no start) and found a very revealing cause and solution.

Tony,

Thanks. I'll watch the video when I get home.
I noticed when looking at the links that were posted that they are for the 2.4L.
Not sure how much different they are, but the same website does have the 2.2L.

Here are the 2.2L files

Are we trying to fix one or two problems? The key is not going to blow that fuse but it can be a problem with the pass lock but it will not be intermittent.
A no start and your fuse may be related. You may have a coil that is shorting out.
I would check the resistance of each. You may find one or two borderline. I would replace them all.

OP issue is 'NO CRANK'/no start. I agree that a coil (or coil pack if this is the integrated type) shorting out may blow the fuse, but it wouldn't keep the starter from cranking.

Just had a car savvy friend come over. We tested relays, fuses, read the CHARM diagrams, etc.
Couldn't figure anything out.

The fuse has not been blowing. It WAS blowing before, but since the las time I drove it, it's just been "no start". All lights and sounds. Can jump relays to make the starter turn. Can't get it to actually crank.

I've taken everything out of the car. Ready to call the junk yard to come get it. While I appreciate all the help and advice, even if I do figure this out, what's next?

We've had good times over the last 16 years and 360,000 miles. High school, college, first dates, jobs, trips, etc. Not that I haven't tried to keep it going. Always said I'd drive it into the ground. I guess it's 6 feet under, now.

So it's now cranking but won't start? Have you ever done a timing chain on it? Does it sound like it has compression when it's cranking?
how's the harness look coming off the coils towards the PCM? Ive seen those get damaged over time from rubbing.

And you said you're near the Gulf coast? I'm in east Texas now, so probably not anywhere near you to help

how did you check these and what were the results?

I can force the starter motor to run when jumping pins 30 and 86(?) on Relay 31, but no start.

I've replaced the belt once. It's still in good condition.

My friend used my multimeter to test the fuses, inputs for different relays, etc. while I had the key in On, Start, etc.

He also was more thorough (rougher) than I was when checking the different harnesses, connectors, and stuff. I tried to be gentle because I didn't want to mess anything (else) up.

Do you have the ignition on when jumping the relay? If yes see if it will hit with starting fluid.

I did.

I don't have any. What would this tell me? What would it be narrowed down to?

While I appreciate the help, it's officially gone.

I can't say I came here expecting one post to instantly solve everything, but this was my last ditch effort.
I've put lots of money and time into keeping it going. Just can't justify any more time, blood, sweat, tears, money, or garage/driveway space.

They'll be here tomorrow to pick it up and take it away. Luckily I'll be at work so I won't cry watching it being rolled down the street and out of view.

16 years, 360,000 miles
I always said I'd drive it into the ground. Until it won't run anymore.
It's officially 6 feet under, now.

You gotta do what you gotta do. At least you realized it's no longer worth the expense of what it would take to keep it going. Kudos

Billy would have made that thing run again. Shame you weren't closer.

Probably just a bad ground......

I have EXACTLY the same thing happening on my 2003 Ion (387,000 miles). What did come up once was the PCM error, but it went away. I can hear starter solenoid clicking, but no crank/no start condition. Starter is a year old. HOWEVER, the car starts every time it is wet/damp outside. Completely baffled as to the cause.