Car locks going up and down randomly
 

Hello Saturn Forum,

I have a 2008 Saturn Aura XE 4 valve. For past few weeks I've been having problems with my power door locks going up and down on their own with the car ignition being on and off. The frequency is random though some days, keeps getting worse, occurs a few times a minute at worse.

Problem seemed to start with having to press lock button on car door a few times to lock. I don't use key fob to lock, cost too much to reprogram.

Maybe I need to take it to dealer to have them hook it up to analyzer device to see if body control module is bad, lock relay in door is bad, fuses are bad for lock issue? I have no other electrical problems. I have an appointment to have door locks looked at with a different mechanic since tire repair mechanic didn't think he could fix it. This other mechanic isn't dealer though, but has good reputation. I have appointment with dealer, but not for 3 weeks.

Also, I have separate issue of warning light on dashboard. I had it looked at and 2 camshaft position sensors and thermostat sensor needed replaced. I had that done which fixed warning light, but light cam back on a day later. It may be new issue I don't know or related to door locks. Car was hesitating before sensors replaced, now drives better so that makes me think warning light is new issue or related to locks. Warning light is a picture of an engine at 6 o'clock position of furthest right instrument cluster where fuel gauge is. Driver's manual says this light is related to transmission somehow.

Any ideas?

location of relays and fuses are on the covers for the instrument panel and underhood junction boxes. Blown fuses usually lead to inoperability. Relay is a possibility; should swap with a known good one to check.

Also found this. Did you have your windows tinted or do you leave your doors open in the rain alot?



Service Information 2008 Saturn AURA | AURA, BAS Hybrid (VIN Z) Service Manual | Document ID: 2208919
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#PIC4458A: Protection Of Door Lock Switches During Window Tint Installation - keywords aftermarket cycle cycling down glass inop inoperative int intermittent moisture unlock up water - (Nov 12, 2008)


However, the fact that your fob is inoperative does raise concern about another issue possibly at play.


Subject: Protection Of Door Lock Switches During Window Tint Installation


Models: 2007-2009 Saturn Aura




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This PI was superseded to update model years. Please discard PIC4458.


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The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
Numerous door lock switches have been returned to the Warranty Parts Center for the complaint of "door lock inoperative" or "door locks cycling". The root cause of this condition has been determined to be moisture intrusion into the door lock switch. Further investigation indicated that many of the returned switches came from vehicles that had accessory window tinting installed.

Note: When using water on the inside of the window to apply the window tinting film to make the tint easier to manipulate be sure to protect the inside switches. Use care when using a squeegee to remove air bubbles. If the switches are not properly protected during the squeegee process, water may enter and unprotected door lock switch which will cause that switch to become inoperative.

Recommendation/Instructions:
During the installation of window tinting film, Please protect the door lock and window switches to ensure that excess water from the installation process does not enter the switches.

Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.



GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a ""do-it-yourselfer"". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION


© 2011 General Motors Corporation. All rights reserved.

As for the new dash light, go to autozone or similar and get codes read for free and post codes PXXX here and we will try to help you.

Hello, thanks for your help. No, I didn't have my windows tinted. My key fob stopped working because the battery died. It was going to be $100 to have battery replaced and fob reprogrammed so I didn't do that. I have just been using my key to unlock door to get in car. I'll have the mechanic I'm going to check to fuses and see if new lock relay in car would help. I don't leave my windows down, but we've been having some heavy rains here lately. There is a real slow leak on driver's side door. Since I've owned car I've noticed about one drop every few minutes comes down around seal on inner part of driver's side door when it rains. Maybe that's it causing electrical problem.

IF that model has a separate BCM (body control module) it can be a place to start. Usually a corroded or loose plug connector can be the culprit. Sometimes just unplugging and plugging it back in several times can "sweep" the contacts clean and clear the problem. If it doen't have a BCM, then I don't have any suggetions. Sorry.

I'm wondering if I could take out fuse that runs the power locks. I found in drivers manual the fuse for power locks in fuse box on passenger side of center console. I couldn't figure out which fuse it was though. This would be instead of having body control module replaced or relay box to locks in door replaced. I just use key to unlock door, don't use key fob. A dealer or garage can just hook car up to analyzer and figure out what's wrong electrically though? Thanks for everyone's help, it's appreciated.

Based on the above GM tech bulletin, if the driver's door has a consistent slow leak and you've been having heavy rains, I'm thinking the "water in the switch" explanation is the most likely. \\ Apparently it must be pretty easy for water/moisture to get inside that switch if so many people were having issues, regardless of where the moisture came from.

You should still be able to locate the power lock relay in either the underhood junction box (UHJB) or the instrument panel Junction box (IPJB) which you have already located. The fuse/relay layout can be found on the underside of the cover you remove to access the panels. Many cars have multiple components sharing fuses, so while pulling the pwr door lock fuse may disable the pwr door locks, it may also cause other things to malfunction/not function at all. The owner's manual should give you at least a hint as to what is on that fuse.

In general, a shop cannot just hook up an analyzer to any car and diagnose any electrical problem. Such an analyzer would need to know the electrical layout of every car out there.....

A GM dealership OR someone experienced with a very sophisticated scan tool CAN troubleshoot certain types of electrical system-related issues by running diagnostic routines that "exercise" components by interfacing with the car's BCM and commanding them to do something, and monitoring if they actually obeyed the command. I believe a GM diag tool would be able to determine whether this was a problem internal to the BCM or an issue with one of the switches.

You might try removing the driver's switch and see if the rest of the system behaves normally. However, this may not work depending on how power door lock circuits are wired.

Someone please chime in on whether the system will work with one switch removed....

Door locks
 

Hey there SaturnAndy, Just chiming in! Derf hit the nail on the head. If GM issued a TSB on this issue, that is the best place to start. You stated you have a seal leaking, so certainly water intrusion could be the problem. Derf's idea if unplugging the switch is what I have also recommend in the past for various issues. It will set some codes when you unplug the switch, after you turn the ignition on. So first I would have the BCM, (body control module) and the Anti-Theft module scanned for codes. That may also point you in the right direction if any codes are stored there. It should not effect the other switches while unplugged, as they each have dedicated circuits to the BCM and Anti-Theft modules. Also, the fact that you had to press the switch several times to get the doors to lock also leads me to believe the switch, or wiring to the switch. One other thing to consider is the door jam switch and circuit. Ford has a huge problem with dome lights flickering and door locks clicking while driving down the road. Similar circuits on GM as well. You can monitor the door jam switches using a scanner, when linked to the BCM. While opening and closing the doors, read the state of the switches (open or closed) on all the doors, but the driver's door is almost always the first one to go, since it's used the most. So, my recommendations, first have the BCM and Anti-Theft checked for codes, if code exist, diagnose those first. Next, after scanning for codes, while the scanner is still linked, check the BCM data for door switches, and make sure when the doors are closed, the data shows that. Open and close the doors several times to make sure. If everything seem to be working with the door jam switches. Last, I would try unplugging the drivers door lock button's switch and drive the vehicle a few days and see if the problem still exists. If it does, please get back to us, and well go from there. Electrical problems are not "trial and error" they are a process of elimination, checking circuits for power, ground, continuity and resistance.

Thanks for the very detailed info, Alpha! It's like I just drove into your shop.
Logical, methodical, and rational approach. And I would never have thought to check for BCM codes (hence it was not part of my suggestions)

Are BCM codes the Bxxx codes (sorry, trying to learn)?

Hell, I did not know the anti-theft module threw or stored its own codes...is this true for most manufacturers?

This is why I love this forum. People getting together to help each other out. No pretense. I love when people read my posts and take the time to follow up to point out things I've overlooked or just gotten plain wrong. Helps out the OP and I learn too.

You can teach anyone almost anything but you cannot teach experience.

Thanks for your help everyone. I got my car checked out at a local garage yesterday. They found out it was the door relay switch, unsure if I got that term right. This switch was in the driver's side door & it controls all the other power locks in the car. They have to order the part and install it. The part and installing it aren't expensive, but the diagnostics will cost some. It'll be about $180 total. I'm glad to pay that to get it fixed. They just unplugged the switch for now so the power locks don't go up and down. That stopped it. So I guess it's not the body control module or a fuse.

But, when I have the car ignition on and put my car from park into drive the locks automatically go down & lock. And, when I put my car from drive to park, the locks automatically go up and unlock. This is since the switch was turned off. Maybe what the wire is from transmission to locks still exists if door switch is unplugged. I'm unlocking the car with my key and just pushing the locks down by hand for now.

Also, I wonder if I need to do something to stop the water leaking in from outside when it rains to make this not happen again. I notice a drop of water every few minutes coming in from the seal of driver's side door where the seal meets the roofline. It's not going down the window to inside the door with the water, but maybe there is another water leak I can't tell. Anyway to fix that? Maybe a new rubber seal around window? Has anyone else noticed this with Aura cars? I might keep the car another year or 2, it has 102K miles on it so maybe door switch would last until then without repairing water leak. Maybe water leak is unrelated to door switch & switch just died?

Thanks for all the help everyone.

Door lock switch and window seal.
 

Hey SaturnAndy, thank you so much for the up date! Yes, you are right, the BCM (Body Control Module) still receives signals from all the other sensors and switches including the transmission range sensor. As I mentioned, unplugging the door switch will only effect that one set of circuits, everything else should operate as normal. Doors should automatically lock when placed in gear and should unlock when placed in park, or the ignition is turned off. If this was not the case before the switch was removed or unplugged...again back to the door lock switch, or door jam switch. If the BCM sets a code, as a safety precaution, it will disable some functions like the auto lock and unlock, so you don't have to manually unlock the doors every time you exit the vehicle. I would say, the Tech. cleared the BCM codes, and unplugging the switch should prevent them from resetting. It may set a code in a few days for the switch being unplugged, but it depends on what the code is, as to what the programmed reaction of the BCM will be. In some cases, it could shut down all the door lock buttons to manual mode only, or just the effected one having the problem. The BCM, or Anti-Theft modules will not turn on a warning light like the check engine light. The only way to know if there are any codes in there is to check with a scanner, not a code reader. A code reader will only read engine codes, and with GM, sometimes transmission codes depending on the quality of the reader.

Your vehicle is new enough it most likely is not the old type contact switches we have been accustomed to for years, where the contacts inside the switch button were about 1/8" apart. The switch would almost have to to submerged in water to short out. In the newer vehicles, they are micro switches, and computer chips, a (door button switch module) which sends electrical signals, better known as a Data-Bus signal back the BCM. If this is a module, and not your normal contact switch, one drop of water in the right spot could short out the chip, and cause all kinks of problems. Electrical components and water just don't mix, haha. Usually these electrical modules are encased in epoxy resin, so I would think the switch was just worn out, but there is a TSB about water intrusion, so it could be either one.

Now, about that window seal. You can try stuffing a small piece of plastic, say trash bag or sandwich baggie (without the zip-seal) in-between the drip rail or body and the seal. Not so much the seal won't go back in place, but enough to close the gap. Depending on the seal, you should be able to pull it down just enough to poke some plastic behind it. Not a big lump in one place, but try several folds, say 3 or 4 flat folds maybe 1/2 wide, and a foot or so long, placed it just above the switch assembly. Next cover or tape something over the switch buttons like a rag, or another piece of plastic to keep them from getting wet again, and hose the window down to see if it seals properly. If not, try a bigger piece. I would do this before you get the new switch installed...then you're all set!

When you have time, may I suggest you visit our "Off-Topic" posts, there are some pretty good jokes in there, and I recently posted a couple of videos you might enjoy, entitled Plowing the Field. We are all here to help, learn and have a little fun along the way...

Such a creative $0.02 fix to a $$ damage causing problem.
Gonna go try that on my 95 (the door gaskets are pretty wasted and there are is 1 drip spot on either side.) Doesn't help that the car was designed with no rain guides on the roof above the windows.....

Thank you Alpha

BCM and Anti-Theft modules
 

Hey Hey Derf! Thank you so much for the compliments! Yes, you are correct, B followed by 4 digits are body codes, in Ford Trucks a GEM (generic electrical module) contains body codes as well as 4X4 transfer case codes. P codes can be either engine or transmission related codes, and codes starting with U are internal computer codes or Data bus codes. Data bus codes can be set in any module, or several at the same time since Data bus is the communication between controllers, computers and modules. Some Chevy Cadillac's have over 30 modules! Doors, seats, cluster, lights, brakes, traction control, stability control, etc...If it serves a function, there is a module for that, lol!

Yes, it is true for all manufacturers that produce vehicles containing BCM's and Anti-Theft modules. Lower end vehicles usually don't have these systems yet. The one's that do have a BCM and Anti-Theft modules all set and store codes, they also have a data stream, and Bused Data between each other and the ECM, ECU, TCM and or PCM. They will not turn on a light when codes are set like the check engine for emission's, or like the ABS module, traction control or stability control...which bye the way will be standard in everything in a few more years! They do not turn on warning lights because they are not a safety issue, will not effect the safe operation of the vehicle, or contaminate the environment...to a point.

Here's something to ponder. One of the biggest expenses auto manufacturers face is the rising cost of copper. In order to meet growing demands on emission standards, fuel economy regulations and safety standards, computer systems are becoming exponentially more complicated. So, more and more they are containing relays and switches inside these modules in order to cut down-on the cost of all the wiring involved in making all these systems work, and work more efficiently. I think with the introduction of all the Hybrid's now days, I believe soon we will fiber optics replacing all wiring in vehicles, and everything will be controlled by modules for the most part. Now I've really got you thinking...

Thanks! I hope it works for you, Derf.

where is this is found

https://www.2carpros.com/questions/2009-saturn-aura-bcm

http://www.answers.com/Q/Location_of_the_BCM_in_a_2007_Saturn_Aura

Front left or right side of the center console

You're welcome.

Compliments of an obscure internet tool called Google and 3 minutes of my life I'll never get back. 4 if you count this reply you'll likely never read

No problem

Same problem with the locks
 

I think my problem is the lock switch on the passenger side due to accidentally leaving the window once in the rain having replaced it yet it's been doing that for along while just havent had the money but mine doesn't always do it like the last couple days with the Michigan weather Its been doing it once the weather warms up it will stop it has before which is weird cuz it didnt even do it all winter

Water freezes -- ice is not as good an electrical conductor

I am having the same issue but I got my windows tinted a few years back. I started noticing the issue about 6 months after I got my windows tinted. My locks go up and down randomly while Im driving or even when the car is cut off. Also the lock switches do not work at all. I am thinking I may need a new BCM

A trashed switch, per the GM TSB, was being returned as either inoperative or cycling among other things.

Sounds like the switches more likely than the BCM at first glance

@derf is this something that I can fix myself or should I take it to GM to replace the switch? Would I need a new switch or the entire assembly?

Just do a youtube search, netteo. There's a dude named richpin that has a LOT of Saturn repair videos. I've used a few of his videos to see how to do things and they've always worked for me.

I'm throwing out a guess.
I strongly advise you to definitively diagnose the vehicle or have it diagnosed before spending money on parts that may not be the issue.
A good independent mechanic should be able to diagnose and repair this issue for much less than the dealer.
Shotgunning parts gets expensive quickly. Not saying that is what you are doing -- just that guessing wrong can cost you big $$

Same issue
 

I have had the same issue with my locks locking/unlocking randomly. I changed out the fuse and this worked temporarily. I did not after-market tinted my windows. However, I did notice that using the carwash regularly seemed to trigger the issue. I think something in the electrical component is getting wet and causing the malfunction.