Saturn 3 Door Coupes SC1 and SC2

No spark.

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Old Feb 3, 2025 | 12:52 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by fabricgator
DISCLAIMER: I am new to this operating system and how Saturn does stuff.
I am going to look at things like fuses and relays first.
Is there anything like an ignition relay or fuse to test (or swap with a known working component)

Then, I will inspect connectors, clean with contact cleaner, reconnect and try it.

If I were to replace that 'CKP' and it were to start/run... if it weren't too difficult to reach, I would then reinstall the old part to ensure that it was my problem and not and intermittent wire connection at the connector that was refreshed by the manipulation when changing the part (and possibly may fail again)(when I am not in my driveway)

Please return and let us know how it goes and what it took to get your vehicle running again. Cheers!

I found no issues with any of the fuses. I swapped them out for known good fuses from other locations, and there was no change.
 
Old Feb 3, 2025 | 01:18 PM
  #12  
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Sounds like the CKP, connector, or wiring. PCM isn't recognizing the signal coming from the CKP, or there is no signal to the PCM. Could be the reluctor ring on the crank but that is extremely rare.

Is the signal generated by the CKP of large enough voltage and proper shape to be recognized by the PCM as a valid signal?

The PCM is looking for pulses above a minimum peak voltage.
If you haven't checked to see if that condition is being satisfied, you haven't ruled out the CKP/associated wiring and connectors.

Also, note that the low side of the sensor is not grounded. You are interested in the voltage difference at two points as a function of time. If you were to tie one side to ground you would be measuring the voltage potential versus ground and possibly back feeding all kinds of noise riding on the ground from the rest of the vehicle.

 
Old Feb 3, 2025 | 10:21 PM
  #13  
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I am not even sure how I would test that while everything is hooked up and cranking. I don't have a scanner capable of reading the signal from the sensor to determine if there's any shortfall of some kind. If there is a way to do it with a conventional meter, I would probably need an oscilloscope or an analog meter, which I do not have.

I don't like just heaving parts at a problem, but considering how inexpensive a new one is and how old the current one is, it may be worth it to replace it simply to rule it out completely (or repair it inexpensively).
 
Old Feb 4, 2025 | 09:04 AM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by celticwarlock
I am not even sure how I would test that while everything is hooked up and cranking. I don't have a scanner capable of reading the signal from the sensor to determine if there's any shortfall of some kind. If there is a way to do it with a conventional meter,
Perhaps you could back probe the connector
Flexible Silicon Back Probe Pin ...Fluke TP40 Automotive Back Probe Pins (five)
 
Old Feb 4, 2025 | 08:43 PM
  #15  
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That's always made me a bit wary, but I suppose there's little choice.

That said, my CKP arrives tomorrow, so I'll pop it in and see what happens. Stay tuned....
 
Old Feb 5, 2025 | 09:42 AM
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Best wishes for your success...
I anxiously await word of your results.
Cheers
 
Old Feb 5, 2025 | 12:30 PM
  #17  
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Make sure you carefully inspect the connector and wiring at the connector while you're there.
 
Old Feb 5, 2025 | 02:37 PM
  #18  
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I have an update.

The wiring and connector appear to be in very good condition. I installed the new sensor, and there was no change whatsoever. I then removed the spark plugs, and there was gas on them. If I'm not mistaken, this means that the computer is indeed reading a signal from the crankshaft sensor. It's my understanding that if it were not, the injectors wouldn't be firing.

I then took the spark plug wires off of the 1/4 coil, and cranked the engine. There was no spark between the two towers.

What we have here is apparently a situation where the PCM is getting a signal from the crank sensor, but there is absolutely no spark. Where should I look next?
 
Old Feb 5, 2025 | 03:02 PM
  #19  
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Are you 100% positive that the fuel on the plugs is not from injector leakage?

Try drying off the plugs or put in some new dummy plugs and crank it again with your foot off the gas as usual. Immediately remove at least one plug and see if it is doused in gas or barely wet.

I haven't reviewed your earlier post, but I was under the impression that you had no fuel at the cylinders. Otherwise, as you state, CKP failure would not be the first logical suspicion.

Can't remember if you changed the coil packs, but know that they get their ground via the bolts that hold them into the bellhousing. The head of the bolt touches a conductive ring around the mounting hole for the coil. The big flat metal area on top of the ICM is not the ground for the coils and no conductive or insulating anything should be added.
 
Old Feb 5, 2025 | 04:45 PM
  #20  
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For the record, I didn't replace the coils. This failure happened very suddenly, and was not preceded by rough running or any such symptom. The car just quit as soon as it was starting up....it fired initially for a second, then stalled immediately.

During the test today, the plugs were barely wet. In fact, only 2 looked like they had actual moisture on them.

I will run that test again and report back.

If the CKP is fine, and I have no spark, where should I look?

Is there a continuity test I can run from the CKP connector to the PCM?
 

Last edited by celticwarlock; Feb 5, 2025 at 04:48 PM.



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