I have a 2000 Saturn LS2 with the V6 engine. It was a very peppy little car until now. I have the service light with a wrench, service engine light, reduced power and some red light that looks like a open book with an arrow pointing down to the open book. It needs help!

 

The first thing you need to do is take it somewhere and have them run the codes on it. Most of your friendly neighborhood auto parts stores do this free of charge. Come back and post the codes here. My first thought is that your catalytic converter may be stopping up.

 

I took the Saturn to my local Advance auto store and they checked the codes. I wrote them down, as they do not do a print out with any explanation of what the codes are. Here is the list:
P0731
P0732
P1780
P1516
P1510
P0327
He did show me on the scanner what the codes were, but he did not have the time for me to write down the meaning of them.
Something about wheel sensors or wheel speeds not matching, all four tires are the same size, 205/65 R15 although the fronts have much less tread then the backs.
Also something about the throttle.
I am pulling the right CV axle, as it is making a clicking noise on sharp turns. I replaced them both about seven years ago, and they have a lifetime warranty.
Will also check the throttle body for build up from the PCV intake.
When I drove it to the auto store, the Reduced Power light was not on when they checked the codes and it drove very well, even though the "Service Wrench" light was on. On the way back, I gave it a bit more gas and the "Reduced Power" light came on and it started running rough, 20MPH max.
Back to the garage to pull the CV axle.
Thanks for your interest.

 

Both CV axles where trashed. Both axles are the same, but the passenger side has a extension on it which does not come on new axles. Must remove it and add it to new axle. Also driver side bearing has some play in it. Bearing must be done at a machine shop. Don`t cheap out on this bearing!

 

P0731 Gear 1 Incorrect Ratio
P0732 Gear 2 Incorrect Ratio
P1780 Transmission Control Switch Out of Self-Test Range OR "red herring" code that indicates something totally unrelated is wrong
P1510 Throttle Control System Performance
P1516 Throttle Actuator Control Module Throttle Actuator Position Performance
P0327 Knock Sensor Circuit Low Input Bank 1

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OK this was an hour of my life I'll never get back.
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Seems like you have 2 separate subsystems malfunctioning at the same time.

1) The P1780 is indicating there is either an issue with the transmission side of the MIL request line OR that the main V6 relay (stupid name) needs to be replaced ONLY IF your car falls within the VIN range noted below. They might be related. I don't know and truly don't care. Review the info below I grabbed of the net and see what's what.

IF your VIN fits the V6 Relay window, replace it with a genuine GM part or look elsewhere for help, b/c I'm personally not going to continue troubleshooting this mess with a $0.99 relay on special from Mela Noma's UV Tanning Salon & Auto Parts (free bait out back too!))) Think about how long your last GM part lasted. Granted 90% of the quality has vanished, but the box still has that glossy finish on it. The competitors' don't.
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If you car falls within the VIN window, suggest replacing relay with Genuine GM part.
If that does not work out as a miracle fix, you'll have to go wire hunting to see why the TCM is so cranky.
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(That being said, I would ignore the 0731 and 0732 for now. Might be real, might not. Need to get the air/fuel mix etc straightened out, then we can legitimately determine the validity or absolute absurdity of these 2 sequentially ordered codes.)
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2) The second issue seems to be related to the throttle actuation system. Although the TSB below refers to ice developing behind the throttle plate, I'd bet my money on the throttle body being crudded up with cruddy crudded carbon and it is intermittently getting hung up/stuck in place/going nowhere fast. Or slow.
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Suggestion is to clean the throttle body bore, especially the back bottom of the throttle plate with throttle body cleaner--use nothing else. Do NOT spray ANY part of the THROTTLE ACTUATION MOTOR or the POSITION SENSORS, you may ruin them. If you don't believe me, ask Andy.

My guess is a good throttle body cleaning will take care of the P1510/P1516 and likely the reduced power issue unless the throttle actuator motor or position sensors have been damaged by cleaning spray
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P0327 Knock Sensor

Car prob running like poopy so sensor is likely NOT picking up the harmonics it would it it was running smoothly. Hence it thinks the engine is knocking. Maybe it is. "....Can't you hear me knockin'?..." Shift all concerns on this one to the burner in the back.
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I give all advice with the intention of being helpful, and more importantly right.
I've never touched an L car before, but anything OBDII based can be troubleshot reasonably thoroughly with some knowledge, the internet (for more knowledge), the ability to sift through the incorrect bs on the internet to find the useful stuff....

AND the will.

I give no warranties, expressed or implied for the above suggested advice, nor guarantee of mechantibility or fitness for a particular purpose.

But I do hope it helps.

Oh, cash value 1/10 of 1 cent
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TSB's AND OTHER GOODIES:
P1510/1516 Possibility

BULLETIN NO.: 00-T-44A

ISSUE DATE: December, 2001

CATEGORY TYPE: Engine - 12

CATEGORY: Emission Controls

CORPORATION NO.: 00-06-04-029A

SUBJECT:
(MIL) SERVICE ENGINE SOON Telltale On and/or REDUCED POWER Telltale On With DTC(s) P1510 and/or P1516 Set During an Engine Start at Ambient Temperatures Less Than 7°C (20°F) (Install New ECM Calibration if Required)

Due to revised ECM service calibration numbers, and model years affected, this bulletin has been revised and supersedes bulletin 00-T-44, which should be discarded.

MODELS AFFECTED:
2000 - 2001 Saturn L-Series vehicles equipped with L81 (V6) engines

CONDITION:
Some customers may comment about the SERVICE ENGINE SOON telltale and/or the REDUCED POWER telltale coming on. When this condition occurs, DTC(s) P1510 and/or P1516 may also be set and stored by the ECM.

CAUSE:
This condition may be caused by condensation freezing at the base of the throttle plate after the vehicle has been driven and then parked in low ambient temperatures. When the engine is started, ice build-up on the base of the throttle plate may cause it to momentarily stick in the closed position. If this occurs. DTC P1510 and/or P1516 may be set. and the ECM will command the REDUCED POWER telltale On while limiting engine rpm and power.

CORRECTION:
Refer to the Engine/Emission Controls section of the 2000 or 2001 L-Series L81 Engine Service Manual and follow the diagnostic aids for DTC P1510 and or P1516. Afier DTC P1510/P1516 diagnostic aids have been followed and any repairs have been completed, refer to the following procedure to determine if an updated service calibration is required.

PROCEDURE:

1. Connect a Tech 2 to the vehicle.

2. Navigate to the 3.0 Liter POWERTRAIN menu.

3. Select ID INFORMATION.

4. Select ENGINE INFORMATION.

5. Read ECM CALIBRATION.


On 2000 Model Year Vehicles:

^ If ECM calibration is 02610601, 02610602, 02620101, 02620102, 02640104, or 02640704, reprogram the ECM with the latest 2000 model year calibration available on the Saturn Service Stall System (SSS). (Refer to "Service Programming System [SPS]" in the Saturn Service Stall System [SSS]/Tech 2 User Guide for reprogramming procedures.) This calibration can be found on software CD version 9.5 and higher.

^ If ECM calibration is not 02610601, 02610602, 02620101, 02620102, 02640104, or 02640704, do Rot reprogram the ECM because the ECM already has a calibration installed to address this condition. Refer to additional diagnostic information in the appropriate L81 Engine Service Manual.


On 2001 Model Year Vehicles:

^ If ECM calibration is 02630102, 02740104, or 02740704, reprogram the ECM with the latest 2001 model year calibration available on the Saturn Service Stall System (SSS). (Refer to "Service Programming System [SPS]" in the Saturn Service Stall System [SSS]/Tech 2 User Guide for reprogramming procedures.) This calibration can be found on software CD version 9.5 and higher.

^ If ECM calibration is not 02630102, 02740104, or 02740704, do not reprogram the ECM because the ECM already has a calibration installed to address this condition. Refer to additional diagnostic information in the appropriate L81 Engine Service Manual.

CLAIM INFORMATION:
To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period, submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for J6355 (EE PROM-Reprogramming), or if another procedure is performed, refer to the appropriate Electronic Labor Time Guide for the correct Labor Operation Code and Time. When another procedure is performed that requires LE Prom Reprogramming, J6355 must be claimed as a Related Line" to that repair
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P1516 Possibility
DTC P1516 - Command Vs Actual Throttle Position Correlation Error

The ECM determines the exact position of the throttle butterfly with the use of two independent oppositely scaled sensors. The actual and commanded throttle positions are continuously monitored by the ECM. If a significant difference exists between the two values for a given period of time, this DTC will set.

DTC PARAMETERS
This code will set when:


Commanded and actual throttle position not in agreement
Condition exists for greater than 0.5 seconds
DTC P1516 is a (type A) DTC.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
Possible causes:


Throttle butterfly movement limited by carbon deposits
Circuit failure to throttle motor
Throttle position sensor not functioning properly (check for TP DTCs)
Throttle body
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P1780 Possibility


000 Saturn LS2 V6-3.0L VIN R

Top - Vehicle
Technical Service Bulletins
. All Technical Service Bulletins
. . Engine - Intermittent Crank No Start/Multiple DTC's

Notes

Engine - Intermittent Crank No Start/Multiple DTC's

BULLETIN NO: 00-T-28

ISSUE DATE: May, 2000

CATEGORY TYPE: Engine-10

CATEGORY: Starting/Charging

CORPORATION NO: 00-06-03-002

SUBJECT:
Intermittent Crank No Start with DTC P1780 Set in ECM History and/or U2105
Set in TCM or BCM History (Replace Main V6 Relay in Underhood Fuse Block [UHFB])

MODELS AFFECTED:
All 2000 L-Series Sedans and Wagons built before VIN YY630765 equipped with V6 (RPO L81) engines

CONDITION:
Some customers may comment the engine intermittently cranks but will not start and Service Engine Soon telltale is illuminated.

CAUSE:
The Main V6 Relay in the underhood fuse block (UHFB) intermittently may not function as designed.

CORRECTION:
Replace the Main V6 Relay using the following procedure.

PROCEDURE:

1. Disconnect negative battery cable.

2. Remove underhood fuse block (UHFB) cover.

3. Remove Main V6 Relay.

4. Install Main V6 Relay (P/N 12135170)

5. Install UHFB cover.

6. Connect negative battery cable.

Torque:
Battery Terminal Bolt: 17 N.m (13 ft-lbs)

PARTS REQUIREMENTS:
12135170 - Relay Asm-Acsry

CLAIM INFORMATION:
To receive credit for this repair during the warranty coverage period, submit a claim through the Saturn Dealer System for J6369 (Relay, ECM [Main V6] - Replace), or if another procedure is performed, refer to the appropriate Electronic Labor Time Guide for the correct labor operation code and time.





Disclaimer

Copyright © 2007 ALLDATA LLC

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P1780 possibility


This DTC indicates that a transmission related OBD II failure has occurred. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) controls a dedicated Service Transmission Lamp (STL) which illuminates when a fail is reported by certain non-emissions related TCM diagnostics. The TCM has no direct control of the engine MIL, but if a transmission fault occurs that is emissions related, the engine MIL must illuminate. A MIL request circuit between the ECM and the TCM provides a means for illuminating the MIL, even though the fault was detected by the TCM. This circuit is pulled up to B+ within the ECM. In order to illuminate the MIL, the TCM pulls the circuit low. The ECM detects this and DTC P1780 is set, which illuminates the MIL. DTC P1780 indicates that the ECM has a detected a problem with the MIL Request Circuit.

DTC PARAMETERS
For this code to set, the engine has to be cranking, and the MIL request circuit has to be shorted to ground, open, or shorted to battery voltage. The condition has to be set for 2.5 seconds .

DTC P1780 is a (type B) DTC.

DIAGNOSTIC AIDS
When attempting to diagnose an intermittent problem, use the Scan tool to review freeze frame/failure record diagnostic information. This supplemental data can be used to duplicate a problem.

Check for poor connections at the ECM or the TCM and for a damaged harness.

 

Thanks derf,
You really are a SUPER Moderator!
I am still working on the CV axles. That extension piece would not come out of the old axle. After much heavy hammering, no luck. I pulled the joint apart, and had to remove what look like a freeze plug from inside the joint.
once that was out I could see the end of the axle extension and hammered it out with a socket and long extension. Will have to finish this later, got to go.
Thanks again for all your work.

 

You are welcome. Saturn may be dead, but I still have much to learn.

Moved this to L Series. We try to keep tech questions out of the New Member area. Usually I notice right away.

I guess this isn't usually.

 

So where I left off on this was removing the shaft from the CV axle. The ring that holds this axle in place had become frozen. The ring and axle end got damaged in the process. Had to order a new ring from the Chevy dealer, as nobody else has this item. Part#21018886. Ground down the damaged end on the axle and made sure it would freely slide into the new axle before putting on the new ring. I got the $60.00 bearing from NAPA and used the press we have at work to replace the "hummer". Everthing went back together smoothly.
Now for the hard part.
I did clean the throttle body and butterfly to look like new.
Also put in a new GM "V6 relay" as my Vin# is YY613749.
Cleared all the codes, and went for a drive.
It started with no service lights and idled smooth. I drove it down the street and it seemed to shift just fine for about a 1/2 mile, then the "Red open book w/arrow" light, service wrench and reduced power.
I have not brought it back in yet to see if I have the same codes as before.
One thing that I did notice is that when it is in park or neutral and I give it some gas, I can feel it moves forward very slightly, maybe a 1/2 inch or so. I could only tell this with my foot out the door on the ground.
I`m thinking it may be a transmission solenoid not sealing completely.
I did come across a post from 5/15/2016 about GM`s 4T45E transmissions. I will do some more research on this and post the codes when I can get it to the parts store.
Thanks for all your help.

 

PLease read the codes and post.

I'll bet it was running in open loop just fine.
It likely went closed loop it fell on its face.

Need codes (says junkie)