S series MT (MP3) thunks fully into gear as clutch pedal reaches top of travel
 

We all know I do not know about transmissions, automatic or the finer points of manuals.

The five speed and one of my Saturn SC2 is doing the following:
When I pull away from a stop in first gear, just as the clutch pedal gets to the top of its travel, there is a jolt or clunk that feels like something seating into place. Presumably the clutch plate and flywheel.

Same for shift 1 to 2, 2 to 3, etc If I give it extra gas and keeping the RPMs up a bit while letting the last bit of the pedal travel out, sometimes I can avoid the clunk, but this is the exception and it burns clutch anyway.

Sometimes it will also chatter when trying to shift at slightly higher revs. May or may not clunk afterwards but usually does.

I also seem to have an issue where if for example I am in fourth gear and I shift to fifth gear while not going quite fast enough, I can let the pedal all the way up but the RPMs stay up significantly and the car does not seat in 5th gear until I let my foot off the gas at which point it immediately goes into gear. No amount of mashing the gas afterwards can create any slippage whatsoever.

I have no issues getting a vehicle into all gears, no grinding, no throw out bearing screeching, and no problem getting the vehicle into neutral while shifting so I am not leaning towards a hydraulic issue.

Engine 86K rebuilt
Tranny 266K, new clutch at 180K
Tranny fluid full and it does not smell burnt.

Is this possibly a case where springs on the clutch plate have weakened to the point that there is not enough tension to force it back up against the flywheel until something else exerts force on it to pin the two together?

I would say that your car needs a new clutch, it is mechanically failing. I have seen the cushion springs in the disc itself wear to the point of coming out. If one of the cushion springs gets out of place it can cause all sorts of strange issues like what you describe. Is this the black beauty?

Indeed it is.
I was afraid you would say that.
Not that it would change the diagnosis but it only happens after driving around town with a light load put on the engine. Once it gets in to stop and start and on ramp traffic, then the problem begins.

This clutch was supposedly replaced only 80K ago. When I got the car back, it had full clutch pedal travel and grip down at a very low point in the pedal travel. I really haven't driven in much in the last 8 years so I am surprised that it has worn to the point that it has. Maybe I have been burning significant amounts of clutch material as the problem snuck in, because there is no way with the minimal driving that 80k is going to kill a clutch. A Saturn clutch installed by the dealer way back when. Maybe age has a factor here but the end result is the end result.

Thank you for the evaluation.

I should add that I really did not notice this issue until I took a road trip yesterday from Pittsburgh down to the Atlanta area. It was not until about 15 minutes of soft driving and shifting that, because of traffic, I was shifting frequently and started to feel the thunking.

Please see the next post about the 97 black car.

Hey Andy, it's been about 45 years since I dealt with replacing a clutch. Is there anyway that the clutch disc springs could come out and score the flywheel? If so, I'll have to remove it and find a machine shop unless they're pretty deep. Then I'd just have to get a replacement.

Those springs do not usually damage anything but the disc itself. These are the dampening springs in the disc.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.sat...a6e8028e5.jpeg

Well, I figured that they'd screw up the disc, but was just wondering if it's possible for one to get stuck between the disc and flywheel. I guess that would be a rare occurrence. I guess it would be more likely to damage the pressure plate or shatter the disc.