Are all the 4cyl motors from the 2001 S-series cars interference motors? I have purchased a car with a bad motor. They told me that the oil light came on and the car stopped. They said it was ran out of oil. I looked at it this past weekend and found that it was 3/4 full.I was told that it could be an interference motor and it might have just thrown the timing chain. I know that I might have to change the head and check the pistons. I would like to know what I am getting myself into.Edited by: sw2cam

Click above on "Settings"
Then click on "Forum Preferences"
Where is says "Enable the WYSIWYG post editor", click NO.

All Saturn S-Series, 1991-2002 LL0, LK0 and L24 engines are interference engines. A broken timing chain will cause valve and/or piston damage.

What would the odds be for damaged pistons. Could piston head replacement be possible with the engine still installed?

usually its just going to be some bent valve. Those valves would really need to slam the piston to force it to crack. And you have to totally remove the head in order to have it rebuilt by a machine shop which usually costs about $500 at any machine shop. And that is assuming you do all of the work to take it out and put it back in. Then youll have to do the usuall stuff like head gasket, timing chain, tensioner, water pump, ect.

(funny text fixed in both posts by SW2CAM)Edited by: sw2cam

Rebuild the head? I was just planning on replacing all the damaged and worn out parts and getting a valve job done. Along with the "usual" stuff, of course.

Well you wont know which valves need to be replaced. Usually if you ever bring it to a garage they will send it out to be fixed up. And since your replacing the valves thats means you gonna be replacing the valve stem seals as well. And then to ensure a good surface they will also resurface the underside of the head to make sure that its both clean and smooth for the head gasket.

And when i say rebuild i dont mean everything. I just kinda say that to generalize. This is of course assuming that its the timing belt.

Well I started taking apart the top end of the motor. It is a 1.9 DOHC. The timing chain is intact, there is a little play in it but I think that is acceptable.

The spark plugs had more than .050" gap, one had over .060. On top of one of the plugs(the one closest to the accessories, is it #1 or #4?) was a little bit of oil, I assume it is from a leaky gasket from around the spark plug hole in the valve cover. It was not down on the electrode.

The PCV valve is completely clogged.

That's all I have found today, tomorrow I plan on draining the oil to see if there are any foreign objects.

Should I pull the oil pan to check the rods and mains? Can I see the bottom of the timing chain with the pan off?

If the old oil is clean and I change the PCV and install new spark plugs should I try to turn it over/start before I pull the pan?

*Edit*
I have been to the parts store today, they can't find an oil pan gasket! Do I have to go to the dealer?Edited by: Easywin

Changed plugs, wires, and oil(oil was dirty, changed in Nov. '07, but no metal with the oil). Tried to start, but it didn't sound right while it was cranking. Yes, the belts turn while trying to start.

The chain was intact when I had the cover off, but I just realized that I only checked tension between the gears, not down the side toward the crank. If the gear was busted down on the crank would there be excessive slop in the chain between the cam gears?

Is it possible to have sheered of the winslow key at the crank?

if anywhere along the timing chain is a broken part then there would be less tension in it. Youd know if it was that. Have you checked to make sure that the timing is still good on the cam gears

Also i would try and do a compression test and see what kinda results that yeilds.

As far as the oil pan gasket, im not sure how it is on these cars but most of the ones i know of will just use a sylicone gasket sealer or a form in place gasket.

And you cant see the rest of the timing chain without removing the bottom cover. Have you checked for spark as well.

I have not checked for spark, but I did hear something like a cylinder firing intermittently.

I asked the dealer for a pan gasket he said, "Um, it's not a gasket, you, uh, just use the silver sealant stuff.". I am going to assume that he meant to use an RTV equivalent.

I have not thought of the compression test, would a cylinder suddenly loose compression? It was being driven at the time of the malfunction. What kind of problem would result from loss of compression?

What about the chain being stretched enough for the chain to skip a tooth on one of the gears?

I am considering a timing chain change now. I am wondering if the problem might be at the bottom end of the timing chain. The chain does move when the crank is turned so I know that it is not broken, but the key could be sheered off.

Is there anything else that needs to come off to get the timing chain cover off, other than the crank pulley? Like any of the accessories or their mounting brackets?

Can I see into the oil pan when the timing chain is removed? I don't really want to take my brand new oil out to inspect the lower end.

I saw in another thread how to change the timing chain, and in one of the posts I read to check if the pistons are all the way down/up, put a four equal length straws down the head to see where the pistons were in their stroke. I could do that and turn the motor by hand to see if any of the connecting rods, or the crank itself, are broken, correct?

what a compression test will tell you is if you have any problems internally. Lets say you have a loss of compression in one cylinder, well then its conceivable that youve bent valves or something.

Im not sure if you need to remove anything to get the cover off. There may be some accessory belts or some pulleys that may be in front, but ussually you may be able to jiggle the covers out.

If there was a connecting rod that broke youd probably know because it may have even tossed the rod out the oil pan, haha. But honestly just do the compression test first, that will tell you ALOT about the condition of this engine.

And no you cannot see into the oil pan with the chain off. The only way to really inspect the crank is to drop the pan. But i would wait on that as a last resort till you know more

Well, I pulled off the valve cover, the wheel, and the accessory belt. Then aligned the notch in the crank pulley, then checked the location of the cam gears. They were right were they are suppose to be. It makes me think that the timing chain is okay. I also think since the chain is correct, that I don't have any bent valves. Is that correct?

I'll try the compression test before I go any further into disassembly.

if the timing looks good then i doubt the starting problem has anything to do with the belt. There may be something smaller of a problem here then you think. You may want to start with checking the basics of an engine, such as the fluid levels, any ignition components (spark, coil packs, starter, alt.) and fuel sytem (fuel pump, ect.)

I pulled the belt because I was planning on pulling the timing chain. I found that the chain was fine, I don't think I'll replace it. I have changed the plugs a wires, have not checked the coils, the batt. read 12.11v, and I can hear the fuel pump kick on with the key(could it not be putting out enough pressure?).

When I turn it over it does sound funny, but I have not heard this car turn over correctly before. Maybe I could head down to the local Wal-mart and cruise the parking lot looking for a similar car and wait until someone comes by and starts it for me.

Well, I don't have good news. I did a compression test and from the passenger side to the drivers side I got 0 , 95 , 80 , and 135 psi. I did the one on the pass. side 5 times. I did an approx. average for the other three with 3 tries. The valve cover is not tightened down and the belt isn't on, but that won't effect the compression.

I got a code reader too and I got P0732 , P0733 , and P0734 gear 2, 3, and 4 ratio incorrect. I don't think that is linked to the compression.

those #'s sound to me like you may not have performed the test correctly

and those codes have to do with the transmission sending out errors. possibly the torque converter

I reconnected #1 and came up with the same result. I did #2 and 3 a couple of times with the same result.

I'll deal with the tranny when the engine gets working.

That motor sounds like its going to the big aluminum graveyard in the sky.

yea if those are the correct #'s then they may have ran it without oil like they said and blew the thing up, and then probably tried to add oil in it and start it but couldnt. So that could be why you found 3/4 full of oil

That's what I am afraid of.

But, the oil filter had 11-5-07 written on it, the oil was pretty dirty, and there was sticker from Wal-mart on the windshield with a date about 3 months down the road.Edited by: Easywin

I did my compression tests again, I got much better numbers this time. I used oil in the two that had 80 and 95 beforeI did the test again, [img]smileys/smiley4.gif[/img] , but on the other two, I did them dry then added the oil. I didn't get any different numbers than before. Then, I did them again with oil, the one with 0 stayed there, and the one that was good before read as high as the other two.

So I have three good cylinders and one shot. What could cause one cylinder to go bad? Would that indicate a head gasket. I was told by someone at work that Saturns are known for blown head gaskets. Is this true?

SOHC's are known for cracked heads. You have to really neglect the engine or be doing something dumb to blow a head gasket on a DOHC.

Sounds like a cracked piston or bent/broken valve.

How would the piston crack or bend a valve? I think the engine might have been neglected, but the oil had been recently changed.

I guess I will find out when I take off the head, right? Do the timing cover and all the accessories need to come off to get the head off?

The timing cover has to come off. The water pump, alternator and A/C compressor can stay.

Power steering?

I take it all of the accessories don't mount on/near the timing cover.

The pump doesnt have to be removed, the it does need to be unbolted and moved out of the way if I remember correctly. I usually do this with the engine on a stand.

Well, I am going to pull the head with the engine in the car, so I won't get the luxury of doing it on a stand. It does make it much easier.

Do I need to completely remove the intake and exhaust? Or can I remove the bolts/studs and pull them out of the way and secure them so they don't fall back in my way.

Just leave the manifolds attached to the head. Then pull everything out together.

Broken rod? I decided to do one more thing before I took off the head. I remembered reading someone putting a drinking straw down the spark plug hole to see if the piston moves. I thought I would go ahead and try it. Nothing! I thought I was doing it wrong so I tried it on number two and it moved. I am pretty sure something broke on the bottom end. I just don't know why.

How easily accessable is the crank from the bottom of the car with the engine installed?

*Edit*
Thrown rod! I found a hole in the front of the block, just above the pan, of course! It couldn't have been just the pan.Edited by: Easywin