'02 Saturn L200 died!! Please help!!
 

Hello all! My mother-in-law has an 'on L200, 4-cylinder, which decided to shut down on her while she was driving to work. There was nothing that occurred out of the ordinary, the car had started as usual, and everything seemed normal. About 2 miles from her house, the car shut off. She said that she noticed the battery light had come on, but other than that, everything else still worked. When I arrived, I tried to start it up, but the motor just turned over with no thought of starting. The battery also seemed to be very weak. After getting it towed home, here is the order of operations which I completed to try to fix: changed the battery, changed the crank position sensor, changed the ignition module (coil pack had been changed a couple of years ago), pulled the altenator and had it checked (it was good). The car still does the same thing, slowly turns over but seems to be getting no spark. I verified that I had fuel coming through the fuel rail, so that shouldn't be an issue either. Where do I go from here?

These cars are very sensitive to loss of voltage. I would suspect a partially failed battery cable.

"How can that be?" you ask -- For some strange reason, the large positive wire going to the battery seems to let battery acid creep under the cable covering, and "eat up" (rot) the cable from the inside - kinda like termites destroying a 2x4. It's possible the negative cable is involved too, but I'd start with the positive one. Oh, and recheck the battery to make sure that replacement is up to full charge ....

Since she said the battery light came on, I'm going to suggest you get the battery load tested and double check that alternator. If the alternator is weak, it will discharge the battery. BUT, OA is more familiar with these cars and I'd do what he suggested first. I don't really know much about GM cars at all because I've been driving and tinkering with Mopars for 40 years.

I actually tried another battery, same thing happened. Battery cables seem to be fine, same with ground, but I understand what you are saying about possible "rot" in the cable. One other strang thing about the car, when you try to crank it, it turns over very slowly. This happens no matter how strong the battery is. Could this possibly be a timing belt? The car only has 76k miles.

OK -- Let's try something else ...

Pull all the plugs, and note which cylinder they go to. Go to AutoZone (or some such) and get a "loaner" compression gauge. Run a compression test, and put all the numbers here in the thread ....

Slow cranking usually indicates a bad ground connection unless you've run your engine without enough oil in it. How's your oil level? If it's okay, then start checking your ground cables, especially any engine to chassis grounds.

Guys I really appreciate your help, but due to time restraints, I went ahead and had her towed to a mechanic. My wife used to work for our local Saturn dealership, so we sent it to one of the old mechanics. In fact, as I typed the first part of this message, he called. The car has jumped time and warped valves on all cylinders, maybe due to a broken chain, maybe not. He has given me a price to fix using a used good head and replacing the chain - $800.

See why it's damn near impossible to diagnose auto problems via the internet. If the person asking the questions isen't passing the correct information how is it anyone can answer with any type of correct information. Lets take the battery light coming on for example. It sounds relevant to the situation but all it did is send people in the wrong direction, why? Because it's normal for a battery light to be on when the key is in the run position when the engine is not "running". Car died light came on........normal. It was not the other way around, light came on car died. That leads me to this, we have no idea if the car is worth fixing, we have no idea the condition of the car, we have no idea of the owners finances. Good luck how ever it turns out.

What's up with that? I asked simple questions, and got very good answers. I explained my problems, and appreciate the help given. I suspected the timing chain, but was wondering if there could be anything simplier which could be causing the issue. Either way, I was out less than $100 to try these simple countermeasures to attempt a fix......it was well worth it. At least the car won't need a CPS or an ignition module any time soon!

As far as Saturns go, I have owned a few, so it's not new to me - it's just been awhile since I've had one. I prefer V8's - muscle. Don't get me wrong, Saturns are great cars, just not my interest........I'm just helping family on this one.

OceanArcher and RubeHayseed, thank you for your help and hospitality, they were greatly appreciated!

Again, good luck how ever it turns out.

$800 seems a little steep to R&R a timing chain to me, but I'm a cheap bastard. Last thing I had a timing belt done on was an 03 Santa Fe with the 2.7 V-6. I couldn't do it myself as I was recovering from brain surgery, but the Hyundai dealership did it for around $500. I thought that was high, but I had no choice. If your Saturn is in good shape otherwise, then get it fixed. That's still a hell of a lot cheaper than a new car payment. Now if that price includes the new valves and possible head replacement, that's a very good deal. Just wanted to be clear on that.

Yes it is hard to diagnose and suggest an appropriate repair via the internet. The modern automobile has become so complex and the back yard or shade tree mechanic can be overwhelmed so quickly due to lack of information, knowledge and even more so, tools.

The above piece of information, composite of a suggestion for repair and an additional summation of trying to describe a problem is indicative of that. And with out any attempt to pass judgement on the good bad or what ever, it does indicate the problem of trying to identify what is going on.

Rotted Battery Cables. A perfectly legitimate problem that in my own experience is potentially real is something I have never seen actually take place and frankly I have worked on a lot of crappy maintained automobiles. If it does take place it is potentially very difficult to even identify although it probably is accompanied with a lot of battery acid damage to the terminal on the cable which is something I have seen a lot of. 'Specially those terminals that are universal replacements of which I have also seen and have created multitudes of problems. But still never have seen a rotted cable.

76,000 miles and the timing belt gives up the ghost and the dang thing jumps time. And in doing so destroys the rest of the engine.
Now there is something a lot of people do not expect to see nor in many cases is it easy to diagnose with a minimum of tools, experience and knowledge.

The suggestion to run a compression check is a good one and appropriate in the time frame of the thread. While the objective was assumed, that is to find out what the compression was and if not correct, why or what else can be seen. But ---- the assumption is that the person with the problem knows what a compression check is, what tools to use and how to use them and has them or access to them. And that is not really a good assumption. I have the tools and the knowledge and 7 cars. In various states of repairs and have built a number of engines over the last quite a few years but I can not remember the last time I ran a compression test for any reason. Although it was probably some where around 1985 when the Dodge I had kicked out a timing belt and quit running with pretty much the same symptom. And as I typically drove about 30,000 miles+ a year and hung onto to a car I sure sure as heck did not expect the cam shaft to jump time.
Of all the cars I had owned up to that time had TIMING CHAINS which would and could be worn to the nth degree with all kinds of slop in the chain operation would not or had not ever flat failed causing the car to jump time. It was inconceivable to me that a new design engine that frankly had the capability to run 100's of thousands of miles would have something so poor as part of it's design that the only maintenance the engine needed was to have a $400.00 repair bill done to it every 75,000 miles to keep it from having a problem because the chain had been replaced by a belt and the belt had an approximate 75K life span. Which was the only limitation the engine had to keep it from running a long life span that older engines would run with out any problems at all. And the belt was supposed to be an improvement.
So how is the casual owner trying to resolve a problem for the first time in their life supposed to know all of these things with out any experience at all AND that some engines with a TIMING BELT can chug it with out further damage and others? It is the kiss of death.
And some one else suggesting to look for it AND HOW ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO LOOK?
Please note with out casting any disparaging stones, all references to the TIMING BELT after the above post were done using the words TIMING CHAIN.
The probability of a TIMING BELT problem at 75K? High. The probability of a TIMING CHAIN problem? Almost zero.
The odds of confusing the issue through the written word?
That is pretty high too.
Had a compression check been run and the person running it had some knowledge as to what to look for the odds are the problem would have been backed in to by observing damage to the end of the spark plug tip caused by broken parts bouncing around in side the cylinder damaging the tip.
And where did the broken parts come from?
On an interference engine, one where the design is that when this happens the valves smash into the pistons thus bending them, usually also breaks the pistons too. The piston pieces generally start smashing the spark plug tips.
The end result?
The wonderful hi-tek computer controlled, overhead cam wonder motor is trash at 75K
And now we have all of the above along with battery run hy-breds with the electronics in the transmissions where all the HEAT is, Batteries adding weight to the basic car with battery life problems no one talks about and weeny little engines pulling all this load around with advertising hype saying how wonderful all this hi-tek mess is and I am supposed to run down and buy something that is filled with a product called MPG! At a third more than the same car with out it it. That is also not anemic to drive.
And should it break before I think it should and expect to get information off the internet to fix it with a bobby pin and some chewing gum.
My 1930 Ford I owned a long time ago, could be fixed that way. But a 2013 Focus? Not a chance.
It is hard to fix a car off the internet, no matter how hard one tries.

Yes, it includes head replacement.

What is the deal on this forum with wanting to argue possible ways of diagnosing automotive issues? I asked legitimate questions, however open ended they were, just to find out if certain senerios could have caused my problem.......is that so wrong? I have alot of experience with working on automobiles, but wouldn't go as far as replacing a head on this motor. Common sense should tell you that, yes you are correct, you cannot diagnose a problem over the internet, but you can ask for advice from people who should have knowledge on Saturns - isn't that what this forum is about? My advice to my mother-in-law was simply this: Buy a car that is made from a company which is still in business, it sure will make it easier to purchase parts when the need arises. Don't get me wrong, I've had 4 of them: a '92 SC2, '02 SC2, '04 Vue, and an '04 Redline Vue. All were good cars, but I wouldn't purchase them again. The ONLY thing they had going for them were the dent resistant panels. I'm a GM fan, and purchase only GM products, but Saturn production was chosen to stop for a reason. Think about it, they still make Buicks but shut down Saturn-there must have been something behind that. Since this is also the last post I will be making on this forum, a little advice: be nicer to those who sign up to your forum to ask for your advice/knowledge. I mean, it's one of your moderators who started making negative comments.......really?? Again, thank the two of you who posted ideas which could help lead in the right direction. If you ever buy a new Camaro - V8 by the way - come on over to Camaro5, everyone is nice there!

Who said anything about it being wrong to ask..........who has not been nice here? I'll not be buying a Camaro V/8 unless it's a 1970-1/2 RS-Z/28 so no need for me to join the site.

I currently have the last GM product that I'll ever own. I'm a Mopar man at heart and may be going to a Mopar dealer either tomorrow or Saturday to see about trading this Equinox in on a new Dart or Chrysler 200. I've not had much luck with GM products that I've owned. I will say the Saturn was the best out of the 6 I've tried over the past 40 years.