Desperate for feedback
#1
06-04-2010, 08:24 PM
Desperate for feedback
Hello,
My first post here and sadly, it's provoked by car problems.
I was looking all over for a forum for Saturn cars and so glad to find you guys!!!
I was registered at another one called SaturnFans but the site won't load...
Anyway, I hope that my presence here won't bother too many.
I have had a lot of bad fortune with my car lately. It has 280,000km (I'm in Canada) and a series of ongoing problems but I'm driving it until the repair will eclipse what it would cost another used car.
Recently, I got an oil change and last year (Winter - Jan/Feb?) I got brand new plugs and wires.
The car revs a bit high on idle but my mechanic said that's typical for Saturn SL1 series.
The car is green, 1998 Saturn SL1, 280,000 kms and had some front end damage I decided to leave be although I didn't want to. Right now, the problem is a lot of hesitation and just today, there was 'thumping' for lack of a better word/description. I am not sure how to describe it better but the car is stalling more. This is more prevalent when the engine is cold although the situation seems worse. I went out tonight but turned around because the car was jerking/thumping as I drove. It seems especially bad in lower gears especially first.
The hesitations still occur and I got a tune up last year. They happen less often but now it's worse. I put in some engine coolant today because it looked too low.
I don't know what to do but when I take it to my mechanic he doesn't seem to look it over enough. But, he's the cheapest in my area.
The car is losing power or not getting enough fuel????? I am fearing it's engine/cylinder head related but I'm hoping someone might recognize the symptom I'm describing. I hope my crappy description is sufficient.
Any other info that I should add that might help diagnose this?
My first post here and sadly, it's provoked by car problems.
I was looking all over for a forum for Saturn cars and so glad to find you guys!!!
I was registered at another one called SaturnFans but the site won't load...
Anyway, I hope that my presence here won't bother too many.
I have had a lot of bad fortune with my car lately. It has 280,000km (I'm in Canada) and a series of ongoing problems but I'm driving it until the repair will eclipse what it would cost another used car.Recently, I got an oil change and last year (Winter - Jan/Feb?) I got brand new plugs and wires.
The car revs a bit high on idle but my mechanic said that's typical for Saturn SL1 series.
The car is green, 1998 Saturn SL1, 280,000 kms and had some front end damage I decided to leave be although I didn't want to. Right now, the problem is a lot of hesitation and just today, there was 'thumping' for lack of a better word/description. I am not sure how to describe it better but the car is stalling more. This is more prevalent when the engine is cold although the situation seems worse. I went out tonight but turned around because the car was jerking/thumping as I drove. It seems especially bad in lower gears especially first.
The hesitations still occur and I got a tune up last year. They happen less often but now it's worse. I put in some engine coolant today because it looked too low.
I don't know what to do but when I take it to my mechanic he doesn't seem to look it over enough. But, he's the cheapest in my area.
The car is losing power or not getting enough fuel????? I am fearing it's engine/cylinder head related but I'm hoping someone might recognize the symptom I'm describing. I hope my crappy description is sufficient.
Any other info that I should add that might help diagnose this?
#2
06-04-2010, 08:39 PM
Yes - the first thing I would do is stop by your local automotive parts stroe (like AutoZone or similar), and see if they can download any failure codes from the computer. Get the actual codes, (not what they mean) and place them here ....
#3
06-04-2010, 08:45 PM
We don't have an Autozone, unfortunately.
Should I risk driving it around now? I thought something on it was gonna die. The hesitations are much worse or else I had the option to do this. I wish I did but I don't know where I would go. I'm sure some place must do it.
But, what about now? I didn't have a problem with stalling before. The odd stall but it stalled at least three times. It's a stick, 5spd.
Should I find out who does the test and just risk it or what?
Should I risk driving it around now? I thought something on it was gonna die. The hesitations are much worse or else I had the option to do this. I wish I did but I don't know where I would go. I'm sure some place must do it.
But, what about now? I didn't have a problem with stalling before. The odd stall but it stalled at least three times. It's a stick, 5spd.
Should I find out who does the test and just risk it or what?
#4
06-04-2010, 10:40 PM
Many auto parts stores offer the service of reading out the computor codes hopefully because you will buy parts to fix the car from them. I don't know what auto parts stores you have in Canada but possibly Canadian Tire offers that service. What you are describing is a 12 year old high mileage car with accident damage. Presently being serviced by the cheapest mechanic in town who sounds as if he is not even worth that. The picture you are painting is not one that represents success, I think you might agree.
I am not in the position to recommend whether you drive the car or not. Only you can decide that. I've driven stuff home that makes yours sound as if it is in A1 condition. But then again, I do most of my own repairs and have most tools I need to diagnose things with and perform an adequate repair.
The last time I had my Saturn to a dealer for what was estimated to be a $375.00 repair, before they started they recommended another $3125.00 would be needed to adequatly take care of the problem(s). We had a bit of a discussion which was a bit less then genteel! Don't have to worry about it now though, GM in it's infinite wisdom has managed to solve dealer problems by eliminating them and the cars that used to be serviced by them, Hummer, Saturn, Oldsmobile and Pontiac. So it probably will be hard to find a mechanic who is worth what you may need to pay them but if you can get the codes read out and listed here. A number of people can translate them for you.
Good luck anyway.
I am not in the position to recommend whether you drive the car or not. Only you can decide that. I've driven stuff home that makes yours sound as if it is in A1 condition. But then again, I do most of my own repairs and have most tools I need to diagnose things with and perform an adequate repair.
The last time I had my Saturn to a dealer for what was estimated to be a $375.00 repair, before they started they recommended another $3125.00 would be needed to adequatly take care of the problem(s). We had a bit of a discussion which was a bit less then genteel! Don't have to worry about it now though, GM in it's infinite wisdom has managed to solve dealer problems by eliminating them and the cars that used to be serviced by them, Hummer, Saturn, Oldsmobile and Pontiac. So it probably will be hard to find a mechanic who is worth what you may need to pay them but if you can get the codes read out and listed here. A number of people can translate them for you.
Good luck anyway.
#5
06-05-2010, 07:56 AM
Please, we would like to help (Saturn folks stick together), but with nothing more to go on than the description you give, I'm afraid any suggestions would be more like trying to stand in your back yard at midnight, in a driving snowstorm, blindfolded, and using a bow and arrow to hit a particular snowflake as it flies by.
That being said, one cannot discount your comment of "thumping" and the mention of damage to the front end from a collision --> might have broken top and bottom motor mounts on the passenger's side of the vehicle. Not saying you do, but ...................
That being said, one cannot discount your comment of "thumping" and the mention of damage to the front end from a collision --> might have broken top and bottom motor mounts on the passenger's side of the vehicle. Not saying you do, but ...................
#6
06-06-2010, 08:07 AM
Well, I'm not a mechanic and although I've worked on my car before, it's mostly 'simple' stuff that I knew what the problem was...e.g. brakes, plugs/wires etc.
If it is a sensor or related to thermostat or some other tool, I have little idea on how to identify...
I think it's a good idea to get a code reading but I have to
a) figure out where to go
b) decide on who to trust
My mechanic is good (I think?) but I haven't been told any 'codes readings' ever from him that I can remember...
How do you guys choose a mechanic (I want to keep my current one but might need to try another for a more conclusive assessment)? I realize some of you do the work yourself but if you take it somewhere, how do you choose?
Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate it. I'm hoping it's a sensor, thermostat etc.
If it is a sensor or related to thermostat or some other tool, I have little idea on how to identify...
I think it's a good idea to get a code reading but I have to
a) figure out where to go
b) decide on who to trust
My mechanic is good (I think?) but I haven't been told any 'codes readings' ever from him that I can remember...
How do you guys choose a mechanic (I want to keep my current one but might need to try another for a more conclusive assessment)? I realize some of you do the work yourself but if you take it somewhere, how do you choose?
Thanks for the replies! I really appreciate it. I'm hoping it's a sensor, thermostat etc.
#7
06-06-2010, 08:14 AM
Well, I know this sounds and seems a bit simplistic, but one way to check for a good mechanic would be to chat up fellow Saturn drivers in your area. Don't be bashful, present a picture of honest need ......
#8
06-06-2010, 09:28 AM
I posted a message yesterday, but the either the moderator removed it or somehow it got erased. Here is briefly what I posted. I have a 2001 Saturn SL with 304,000 miles and I recently had a similar problem to what you are experiencing, engine surging, hesitation, etc. I first changed the spark plugs which did not solve the problem and remembered at about 160,000 miles; I changed the oxygen sensor which not only made the car run like new again, I also gained about 4 mpg. I changed the oxygen sensor again which solved the problem.
The following symptoms will help tip you off to a failed oxygen sensor: Surging and/or hesitation, poor or a decline in fuel economy, failed exhaust emissions testing, premature failure of the catalytic converter.
A bad oxygen sensor may misread or misinterpret an engine's air/fuel mixture or air/fuel requirements and cause too little or too much air and/or fuel to enter an engine's cylinders, especially during acceleration. This can cause an engine to hesitate or stumble.
An oxygen sensor should be considered a tune-up replacement item just like spark plugs although it is something that people often overlook.
You have two oxygen sensors (upstream & downstream). I believe that you will just need to replace the upstream (I have replaced my upstream twice and never replaced the downstream. The purpose of the downstream is to basically let the computer know that your catalytic converter is functioning properly. Which brings up another point - if your upstream oxygen sensor has never been replaced it may have caused premature failure of your catalytic converter. I have had problems with a catalytic converter before on another car and when I first started the cold car no problem but within a few minutes after the converter heated up, I could not drive the car more than about 1/2 mile. So need less to say I had to replace the converter.
For your info: I used a Bosch OEM exact replacement Oxygen sensor and not the universal type of Bosch. You could also use a GM replacement. You will need an Oxygen sensor removal socket or you could use an open end wrench. It takes about 1 minute to remove the oxygen sensor; it is right on the exhaust in-between the fan and motor (very easy to see). Just disconnect the wire and remove. The new one will have some anti-seize paste on it make sure to leave that on, otherwise removal will be very difficult next time.
Is your check engine light on? I can tell you how to access the engine codes. I also have a manual to determine what the codes mean.
I would like to make some more comments but I will wait for your response first.
The following symptoms will help tip you off to a failed oxygen sensor: Surging and/or hesitation, poor or a decline in fuel economy, failed exhaust emissions testing, premature failure of the catalytic converter.
A bad oxygen sensor may misread or misinterpret an engine's air/fuel mixture or air/fuel requirements and cause too little or too much air and/or fuel to enter an engine's cylinders, especially during acceleration. This can cause an engine to hesitate or stumble.
An oxygen sensor should be considered a tune-up replacement item just like spark plugs although it is something that people often overlook.
You have two oxygen sensors (upstream & downstream). I believe that you will just need to replace the upstream (I have replaced my upstream twice and never replaced the downstream. The purpose of the downstream is to basically let the computer know that your catalytic converter is functioning properly. Which brings up another point - if your upstream oxygen sensor has never been replaced it may have caused premature failure of your catalytic converter. I have had problems with a catalytic converter before on another car and when I first started the cold car no problem but within a few minutes after the converter heated up, I could not drive the car more than about 1/2 mile. So need less to say I had to replace the converter.
For your info: I used a Bosch OEM exact replacement Oxygen sensor and not the universal type of Bosch. You could also use a GM replacement. You will need an Oxygen sensor removal socket or you could use an open end wrench. It takes about 1 minute to remove the oxygen sensor; it is right on the exhaust in-between the fan and motor (very easy to see). Just disconnect the wire and remove. The new one will have some anti-seize paste on it make sure to leave that on, otherwise removal will be very difficult next time.
Is your check engine light on? I can tell you how to access the engine codes. I also have a manual to determine what the codes mean.
I would like to make some more comments but I will wait for your response first.
#9
06-06-2010, 04:52 PM
. Here is briefly what I posted. I have a 2001 Saturn SL with 304,000 miles and I recently had a similar problem to what you are experiencing, engine surging, hesitation, etc. I first changed the spark plugs which did not solve the problem and remembered at about 160,000 miles; I changed the oxygen sensor which not only made the car run like new again, I also gained about 4 mpg. I changed the oxygen sensor again which solved the problem.
The following symptoms will help tip you off to a failed oxygen sensor: Surging and/or hesitation, poor or a decline in fuel economy, failed exhaust emissions testing, premature failure of the catalytic converter.
A bad oxygen sensor may misread or misinterpret an engine's air/fuel mixture or air/fuel requirements and cause too little or too much air and/or fuel to enter an engine's cylinders, especially during acceleration. This can cause an engine to hesitate or stumble.
An oxygen sensor should be considered a tune-up replacement item just like spark plugs although it is something that people often overlook.
You have two oxygen sensors (upstream & downstream). I believe that you will just need to replace the upstream (I have replaced my upstream twice and never replaced the downstream. The purpose of the downstream is to basically let the computer know that your catalytic converter is functioning properly. Which brings up another point - if your upstream oxygen sensor has never been replaced it may have caused premature failure of your catalytic converter. I have had problems with a catalytic converter before on another car and when I first started the cold car no problem but within a few minutes after the converter heated up, I could not drive the car more than about 1/2 mile. So need less to say I had to replace the converter.
For your info: I used a Bosch OEM exact replacement Oxygen sensor and not the universal type of Bosch. You could also use a GM replacement. You will need an Oxygen sensor removal socket or you could use an open end wrench. It takes about 1 minute to remove the oxygen sensor; it is right on the exhaust in-between the fan and motor (very easy to see). Just disconnect the wire and remove. The new one will have some anti-seize paste on it make sure to leave that on, otherwise removal will be very difficult next time.
Is your check engine light on? I can tell you how to access the engine codes. I also have a manual to determine what the codes mean.
I would like to make some more comments but I will wait for your response first.
The following symptoms will help tip you off to a failed oxygen sensor: Surging and/or hesitation, poor or a decline in fuel economy, failed exhaust emissions testing, premature failure of the catalytic converter.
A bad oxygen sensor may misread or misinterpret an engine's air/fuel mixture or air/fuel requirements and cause too little or too much air and/or fuel to enter an engine's cylinders, especially during acceleration. This can cause an engine to hesitate or stumble.
An oxygen sensor should be considered a tune-up replacement item just like spark plugs although it is something that people often overlook.
You have two oxygen sensors (upstream & downstream). I believe that you will just need to replace the upstream (I have replaced my upstream twice and never replaced the downstream. The purpose of the downstream is to basically let the computer know that your catalytic converter is functioning properly. Which brings up another point - if your upstream oxygen sensor has never been replaced it may have caused premature failure of your catalytic converter. I have had problems with a catalytic converter before on another car and when I first started the cold car no problem but within a few minutes after the converter heated up, I could not drive the car more than about 1/2 mile. So need less to say I had to replace the converter.
For your info: I used a Bosch OEM exact replacement Oxygen sensor and not the universal type of Bosch. You could also use a GM replacement. You will need an Oxygen sensor removal socket or you could use an open end wrench. It takes about 1 minute to remove the oxygen sensor; it is right on the exhaust in-between the fan and motor (very easy to see). Just disconnect the wire and remove. The new one will have some anti-seize paste on it make sure to leave that on, otherwise removal will be very difficult next time.
Is your check engine light on? I can tell you how to access the engine codes. I also have a manual to determine what the codes mean.
I would like to make some more comments but I will wait for your response first.
It could be an O2 sensor or both? I just went for a further drive and there is a 'gurgling' when I drive as well as a lot of chugging/hesitation/vibration. The engine surges and I get high rpms at idle (at a light for e.g.). I don't notice it getting worse at acceleration, just while driving... it will suddenly hesitate and I'll lose power...it'll chug...
I'll try to take it in somewhere tomorrow to hopefully get a code reading. I was wondering how much sensors cost. I'm willing to replace them (all) if that fixes it. It's extremely upsetting and even annoying to drive the car right now.
#10
06-06-2010, 05:08 PM
So, these could all be culprits or contribute to the problem?:
O2 sensors
ECT Sensor
Thermostat defective
Throttle Position Sensor
Would it make any sense to replace them all? How would I diagnose each to see if any are defective? If I say to a mechanic to check these, would this work?
Maybe I could replace one / some myself? Then get the mechanic to replace the other one(s)?
O2 sensors
ECT Sensor
Thermostat defective
Throttle Position Sensor
Would it make any sense to replace them all? How would I diagnose each to see if any are defective? If I say to a mechanic to check these, would this work?
Maybe I could replace one / some myself? Then get the mechanic to replace the other one(s)?
